ehall

I understand the first sentence, but my question really meant how much do you actually gain (for a street car) by reducing the weight? In a street application, tenths of seconds are basically irrellavent in relation to the overall durability of the engine. Although you do reduce complexity, your going to have to perform belt maintenance anyway, so that doesn't seem to be enough of an advantage.
As far as the potential prooblems, I disagree with you. Vibrations destroy race cars pretty quickly, and they get rebuilt all the time. I wouldn't want that problem in a street application.
I guess I am of the opinion that we sometimes get caught up in some awfully superfluous stuff when discussing mods for street cars on this board. Build a good solid, durable, powerplant and then add performance is the way I'd approach it, but to each his own. Good luck with your build.
Cheers.

gt37vgt

its not as simple as balance engine no balance shaft the lower rotating assembly is only ever really balanced at a given rpm . the 944 engine ended up particularly unbalanced at cruising rpm so they engineered in the counter shake shafts with knife edgeing you would probably change the rpm at wich the shake happens also chopping the counter wiegths down you may reduce the shake alot you might make it worse and same goes for the con rods I outlined the proven problems that occure with loosing the balance shafts . it will be different for evey crank and rod set up .
the best comprimise is leave them on and one day just take the belt off .
if we realy knew what we were doing we would be able to lighten the shake i mean balance shafts to match out lightened bottom ends

Fishey

Advantage, in a street car is lower maintenance cost and easier upkeep. (The list of advantages is long)

Downside, in a street car is listening to people on Rennlist tell you all about the doom that is coming.


-Fishey

gt37vgt

well if you get rid of the distributor and massive alternator and aircon first you may be right

Fishey

I have never ran into any issue with a distributor or alternator on any motor without balance shafts. hell, my balance shafts where put in backwards on purpose (to test) for 15,000mi and there was no side effect other then it felt like a giant women pleaser.

tommo951

Wow that is a long list!
Lower maintenance costs? A new belt every 40,000 miles?? If you can't afford that maybe a Nissan Micra may be more the scene.
How long you been running without balance shafts Fishey?

Fishey

I have been running without over 2 years and others for around 8 years my current engine has been without them for around 9 years and 180,000mi. The original car is actually been cut up and trashed but the motor is still going strong at this point.

List of Advantages 2.0
1. No Need to align balance shafts. ( Time)
2. No Need to tension balance shafts (Time)
3. No need to spend many hours tearing out the balance shafts to fix the rear O ring. (lots of time)
4. No power loss from rear seals leaking
5. No Radial Seals to leak
6. No Radial Seals to install
7. No clear plastic stupid seals to even worry about
8. No Balance shaft belt to snap and possibly throw off your timing belt

333pg333

For some reason and I'm happy to be corrected, but I didn't think you actually owned a 944 turbo Fishey?

ehall

so let's see.
1. and 2. see tommo's post.
3. I have 100,000miles on mine without a leak.
4.How in the hell do you lose power from an oil leak?
5. See #3, though having one less seal is an advantage...every 100,000 miles.
6. See above
7. see above #5.
8. You have to maintain the t-belt anyway. This MIGHT take 15 extra minutes in maintenance time, but see #1. and #2.

9. Don't own a 951 do you?...

ehall

He liked the feeling of sitting on a giant "woman pleaser" and lost track. lol

Fishey

3. You don't understand what I am talking about its not an oil leak its the rear O ring that shrinks over time.
4. The loss of power is from a crank case pressure leak not an oil leak.

9. Nope, I never will own a 951 but I have more time working on them then 95% of the people on this forum.

special tool

Dude - most of the time I understand what you are saying when other people don't, but you lost me on the crankcase powerloss thing.

tommo951

"The loss of power is from a crank case pressure leak not an oil leak"??????
Sorry I did not know that the balance shaft controlled the combustion area, maybe you could assist us further Fishey. For the record, you may have experience on these engines. Experience is not always a proof of competeance. Show us what you have done.
Chris White gave his viiews and we know what he can do.
ST has made his comments and we know what he can do.
Chris Cervelli has made his comments and he knows a thing or two.
You claiming to have a better knowledge of tuning a 944 NA or Turbo than these guys??
Maybe you have been spending too much time on that woman pleaser!!!

Rock

Im keeping my balance shaft belts, and im a total retard. So if a total retard is keeping them, then that must tell you something.

Plus im no genius, but I dont think there is THAT much power to be gained by loosing them. I know its rotating mass, but at the risk of your engines lifespan?

I know some of us are so cheap that we cant shell out 200 dollars on a wastegate and end up blowing **** up left and right, but it isnt that costly to keep the balance shafts anyway.

Plus I think the power gain from it would be the equivalent of what you would see if you shaved your ***** before driving (Weight reduction)

Fishey

Tommo951 this goes for you as well.

I kind of think of it like this song.

With the finger bone connected
to the hand bone,
and the hand bone connected
to the arm bone,
and the arm bone connected
to the shoulder bone,
Oh mercy how they scare!

With Sarcasm
-Fishey