Chris Prack

Nah. You don't even notice the air filter in the car and with no windows and the back hatch blocked off there is plenty of air.

333pg333

AW, I can tell you are a knowledgeable guy on these matters, but I too am curious as to your contact with Porsche's in general? Are you a racer, mechanic, tuner, builder, machinist, administrator, owner, fan etc...you must be one or more of these I assume. Obviously you and SG disagree about quite a few things, but at least he's known to us for his business and cars.
No offence intended either.

A.Wayne

No offense taken ,

I would also like to say i can see Scott is very well respected here and in no way did i intended to or wanted to disrespect him in anyway , we are in disagreement on a few issues , some tried to make it personal , i'm not going there, nothing to gain. ( Confucius no2) Scott, i hope no hard feelings, now we need to discuss how to use the rules to beat those crazy beasties, what about a 2L 8V 951, in GT4.........or in GT3.......2.2L 16V 951.......anyone.

Hey from now on all GT3, 3.4L NA Aircooled 400 whp engines are now known as Bigfoot.

Landjet

A.Wayne you must be in politics you avoid a direct question as well as Hillary C.

333pg333

He is good I agree. lol

evil 944t

AW is GOOD!

A.Wayne

OK, OK , i will admit, i will admit Hillery C , ***** are bigger

333pg333

Wonder what Hillary is going to get her intern to do?

A.Wayne

Here yuh go.
Team photographer....and sandwich guy.
https://rennlist.com/forums/showthre...ferrerid=29517

1Qk944turbo

A.Wayne- That intake manifold looks like an Eric Barrett job. Who make it?

RJ

333pg333

So did it sell??? http://www.johnstarkeycars.com/pages...e_924_GTR.html

A.Wayne

Not sure , it was delivered like that , my involvement was for ecu and engine mapping.

PorscheDoc

Without reading the 15 pages, here are a few of my thoughts on the original question. I maintain about 10 club race cars, both 911 and 944/951. I don't run any 951 GT3 class cars, so I can't comment on what those cars can and can't have in that class.

I think 944 Turbos in F class are a very competitive car, but it seems that we are always a few places behind the lead 911's. They have some rules that I have never quite understood. The turbo S in E class is pretty outgunned, and here in the midwest, hardly anyone runs that class, so there is no one to run with. We also get stuck in the race group with the GT3 cars, instead of with the F cars, which would actually still be a good race. Most of my F class cars will out drive my E class guys. I have 1 guy still running E class, so he and Richard B (samluke) get to compete against each other, lol.

At HPT, I have been called in to help the scrutineer tech cars, and what they let slide and not slide has really baffled me, both on the 911's and 944s. The funiest thing I saw, was a brand new 997GT3 car. We drilled the rollbar to check for thickness, and it didn't meet US PCA club racing spec....wasn't thick enough, so they didn't pass. Good enough to run in Lemans, but not in PCA club racing, lol. IIRC it was a Kelly Moss car (if you have seen their setup that they bring for the weekend it is UNREAL....they have more money in weekend tires for a single car than most of my maintained cars are worth!).


In F and E class for the 951/S, we have to run with the AC compressor installed with the belt. The 911's on the other hand have to have their compressor present, but don't have to have the belt attached. Obviously this is not possible to do with the 944. It seems that if you come in over weight, then whether or not you are running the AC compressor shouldn't matter. The fact that euro cars did not come with AC compressors does not matter, here in the US, they make you run it...hell you can get the FACTORY delete bracket. The 911's can reduce that drag, but the 944's can't.

Wings: According to the last scrutineer I talked to, a 911 can use different wings, but you can not change the wing on the 944. You can't even put the 968RS wing on a 944 turbo. They said it is because of a safety issue that the 911's can use the wing....but I thought this was stock class?

AC condenser: Granted 90% of the guys out there are doing this, but you can not cut the fins off the AC condenser on the 944 to allow more airflow to the radiator. We actually got nailed on a car that was teched and had to install a fully finned AC condenser to run. You can run a bigger oil cooler, but can't cut fins off the AC condenser....that's an odd rule. If you would have walked through the parking lot at most tracks, like I said before, hardly anyone has them still attached. So if you are running without the fins, you may want to pick up a spare condenser with the fins in case you have to do a quick swap.

Camber plates being pinned: I won't go into that one, there are other ways to get 2.5-3 degrees of negative camber out of the fronts with the stock components, so it seems pointless that you can run camber plates, but they have to be pinned.

With that being said, our goal is to go out and have fun. If we place well, then we had a great weekend.....if we didnt place well, we still had a great weekend. We go out and try to better our times, and having some other cars to play with on the track is just a bonus

Geoffrey

I know I'm late to the party here, and I am not going to read all pages, but after the first two pages some things are not reported accurately.

This is not accurate at all. The Rules committe was a mixture of people who ran 944s, 928s, 914s and 911s so it was NOT biased towards 911s. I don't think that you can help the fact that the 911 model series is the series Porsche has raced most. There are going to be more developments made, more options for equipment, more displacement choices which is why they run the span of GT1-GT5 classes. The 944 models have only a small displacement range, are disadvantaged by the large size of the 4cyl engine from an engineering perspective, and they will likely fit into only a small number of the GT classes. There are more people racing GT 911s and spending more money on 911s than on 944s. How many ultra dollar 944s are there out there compared to ultra dollar 911? No nearly as many. However, within these classes, there are a number of options for you. Further, the turbo engine has a performance factor of 200 and the 2v turbo 911 engine has a performance factor of 210 which acknowledges the difficulties 944s have had with being competitive with 911s. 944s are a more balanced vehicle and combined with the lower performance factors should allow for more even competition. The rules were not written because Chris Musante was getting beat by 944Ts, the rules were rewritten to rebalance old stagnant rules that had low participation in some classes (GT2 for instance) and to address the 1.3 turbo multiplier (BMW uses a 1.5 turbo multiplier). The new rules also allow for rebalancing an individual engine type if it is found to be uncompetitive.

All of the GT3R, RS, and RSR power outputs are limited by air restrictors (29.5 for the 997RSR w/o AC in ALMS) in the series they run in and don't represent the true potential of the engine. Any car running these engines are either in GTP (air cooled chassis) or GTA (996/7 chassis)

I will agree, there isn't a 911 aircooled N/A engine that is putting 400whp. 400 crank hp is hard enough.

We haven't even been to the first race, lets see what happens at Sebring.

Jeff Lamb

Geoffrey, thanks for your valuable feedback. Better late than never!! Regarding this debate, the thing I have learned is that, unfortunately, I don't think we will ever come to any sort of consensus among racers of various different cars on what the proper assigned HP/liter numbers should be for any given engine.

However, there is ONE thing that we did obtain consensus on -> The GT rules changes are very significant in a number of areas and racers have very little time to adapt to these changes. Our collective wish is that somehow the rules changes (not involving those required to be implemented immediately for safety reasons) could be delayed to take effect 1/1/09. And, if the current rules changes cannot be delayed, then we hope that future rules changes of this magnitude will only be implemented with much more advance notice (many would prefer an advance notice of at least one year).

Thanks,
Jeff