Ski

If you're DE'g the car, you can use factory arms IF you use good a quality pin and bushing setup, don't ride the curbs, and have an extra set to change out with so that you can rebuild the others and have them checked for cracks - just MHO, having done this for the first two years of our track car but we did them every year with SSI ball joints, RE bushings and RE castor blocks. We never found any cracks, car is lowered, stock pins, and sprug pretty well but we inspected it after each event - no exceptions.
As we became better drivers, our smoothness picked up, and so did our speed (I have a partner in the car) so safety became more important - we got Charlie Arms.





Whatever you decide to do, do not forget the stress that DE and racing places on parts. If you're going to put it on the track, you owe it to yourself, your family, and those on the track with you, to bring the safest car to the track.

Travis - sflraver

A thread like this usually ends up taking the form of a battle of opinions. Like they say "... everyone has one."

We were the first to come out with the longer pin solution and the only one, to date, to do it for the OEM control arms. We now have over 300 sets in the field, both 17mm and 19mm versions, being used in all applications from an every day driver to a dedicated track car. Out of all of those sets (600 pins) we have only ever had 2 failures.
The first cracked at the radial groove that the pinch bolt slides through due to not following the torque specification. If the pinch was properly secured there is no way to brake a pin above the bottom of the pinch. This was one of the first run of sets that we had produced and, since then, we have eliminated the complete radial groove and replaced it with a liner recess. This adds to the strength of the pin in the event that a pinch bolt is not torqued down or loosens up during use.
The second failure happened on the track only a few months ago. The pin DID NOT BRAKE when the car ran into the concrete barrier wheel first, it bent slightly (17mm version). The customer ordered a single replacement pin for that side and is also repairing a bent strut, tie rod, fender, door, rear quarter, etc.. I have seen OEM pins shear under lesser conditions.

So.. opinions are great but the above is how our products react in the field. I cannot speak for the other manufactures of longer pins that go into aftermarket arms but if you have a set of Rennbay GCK pins that are installed correctly, you have nothing to worry about.

xsboost90

BOO YAAA

SoloRacer

It's too bad the Charlie Arms are NLA. I would buy a set today if they were available.

gt37vgt

i think a bit longer for the pins for correcting control arm angle for anti dive and adding clearance is a good idea but not to far as you will get bumpsteer if you don't do a similar mod to your steering link geometry

333pg333

Err if the original poster has some steel aftermarket arms maybe they are RE's or something similar? Best to see first. Maybe he's intending on removing something that is actually designed to handle exactly what he means to do?

Ski

Charlie Arms are still available, but he is doing less of them. They're presently $1895 a set, check with evil944t, as he talked with him last month. I think he is only doing 20 sets a year.

evil 944t

Thats right, 20 sets a year and he is all out. He 's not making any until after New Years.

I tried to get 10 people together to get some made before the new year but couldn't do it..

gt37vgt

please explain how a decent fabricator can't weld up good cromolly arms with MOOG ball joints or rod ends for $1000 per set $1895 is not expensive its completely obscene but they appear billet machined an out standing waste of materail
the other funny thing is "charlie" it seems has a more profitable way to spend his year than makeing 100 sets of arms

eniac

I have been wondering this myself ever since I saw the rediculous price on those arms years ago.

So none of the stock arms you used ever broke nor had any cracks? How is it then they are not safe?

Good post, thanks for clearing this up

Ski

I'm sorry but I couldn't find anywhere where I said they were unsafe, nor was I referring to the safety of the OEM arms as you made your own conclusion or read between the lines. I said I wanted some added safety("safety became more important") and I think Charlie Arms are stronger, again MHO since DE days don't pay my mortgage, my sons college fund, contribute to my 401k, nor gives any money to invest. I didn't like paying $865 for a #$@!'g Hans device but my family is worth it.

SSI just found a cracked ball jt socket on a friends car, never been to a track, 74k miles. What happened, who knows; are they unsafe, no, but if we as owners are not diligent in our maintenance of these 20 yo cars, everyone needs to take maintenance serious. A recent event on RE arms, everyone was in an uproar about it. Karl, god bless him, took the lead, found out what went wrong, called everyone or sent emails, offered replacements or take them off and he would do the additional work for free.

Whether you choose Marcus, Karl, Charlie, Kokeln, LR, or stock, in the end, the user is responsible for diligence. If Charlie is making a little money for a good product, so be it, as the last time I checked there was nothing wrong with profit, including but not limited to the Hans device.

Bri Bro

Kind of like this.

gt37vgt

ha exactly they look like mild steal how much were they?
nothing wrong with them bit of adjustment there

Bri Bro

You need to call MarKus for a price. With the dollar taking such a nose dive, it's hard to say. They were one of the best prices on control arms when I purchased them a year ago. Ball joints can both be replaced in under half and hour and they are inexpensive. Lots of good reviews on them and have worked well for me.

http://www.blaszakprecision.com/Control_Arms.html

gt37vgt

no thanks but they are far the best design when you factor in the ease of manufacture. so i will just cook some up myself and use Mazda Ball joints as they don't require that VW shape plate they will bolt through the arm it self .