Naplesguy06

I dont know about that, have you seen the crank on a 944 it looks like a truck part. Also, the 951 engine is designed to handle much more hp than the car was sold with.I talked to Weissach engineers when I was in Stuttgart and they informed us that the motor could safely run up to 300 h.p. on 93 octane fuel, I have owned a mazda gen 3 rx-7 that was modded by pettit racing in Florida and a Nissan Z`car didnt really see the holy grail with either of them, the RX-7 was a total P.o.s and spent more time on the lift than my garage, the Nissan Z car was more dependable but now thier HG blow on thier new 350Z and Altima cars. Honda is able to make 100 hp per liter with thier N/A Vtech motors but what do they do in turbo? Also, Japenise cylinder heads are all aluminum and they do crack as well, even stock without modding, I havent heard of this happening on a 944 often unless it is seriously abused. THE reason that the 951 is behind the tuning game is because Paul Walker wasnt driving one in the fast and the furious, he drove a Supra in the first movie and an Mitsibushi sponsored Evo and a used Nissan Skyline in the second. If he was in A Porsche 944 turbo you would see everyone in the world looking for one and the aftermarket world following right behind with thier hand on our backpockets. But Porsche diddnt sponsor the movie or provide the cars, they dont make the car anymore, it was cancelled for the boxter, which is another stepback in technology for them. Thats all it is. I think that Porsche makes a lot of mistakes with thier models, cutting one car after a few years to make another one, the only car that has never been killed off being the 911. They pay no attention to the cars from the 80's or any used car for that matter because they must constantly look ahead for income to be generated. Look at them now. 3 cars running flat 6 engines. Almost all look the same and in the same price range, well within 30,000 of it, but when your talking 70k and up who cares about 30k. The boxter,caymen and 911, and the Toureg , I`mean the cayenne pepper. I think there apex was the 80's and that is`why I keep holding on to my handmade 86 911 and 951 cars. You go to thier car lots and everything is the same and you can tell it's assembly lined and outsourced. Japenise cars are so refined they are almost boring but the Japs do make the trannies or the new 911, hard to believe, the euro must be rising way beyond the yen.

special tool

Have I seen the crank???

UUUUh yeah, dude.
When I tell you something, its from experience.

SoloRacer

That has to be one of the most ridiculous and stupid statements made to date. You honestly think F&F was behind modifying of cars? How long have you been around grasshopper? Let me guess, you think all the developements are "new" technology pushed to the limits by the most recent round of tuners. Meanwhile you are ignorant of guys like Jon Milledge or Jeff Stone who have been making reliable horsepower in racing situations for years prior to F&F. Hell, F&F isn't even responsible for the import scene - otherwise how do you explain guys like RE Amemiya or Jim Downing?

What F&F is responsible for is creating an industry of blowhards and marketers. Want more power? Just push the "Nawws" button. If the internals blow out the tail pipe blame the vehicle (in your case the RX7) and not the tuner. The quality of tuning shops has gone downhill since that movie came out because now every monkey with a crescent wrench who gets 5 rwhp out of an engine is suddenly an "expert". Image has suddenly gotten more important than results.

Now if you want to step out of the movies and into reality I'll give you the REAL reason for limited 951 tuning. It's a little thing called supply and demand and earning a living. We are talking about a car that was made from 86-91 in limited numbers and because the market is very small people can't make a living catering to it unless they go after the deep pockets (ie: racing). The 911 doesn't suffer these same issues and as a result there are a plethora of major tuners catering to the car and their owners.

And asking "Tool" if he's ever seen a 951 crank. That is priceless.

P.S. For the record the FD3S is a beautiful piece of work and remarkable for power and performance that can be had. Only problem is that every hack thinks they know the engine and owners without the resources to maintain one let them get into an unreliable state. Instead think of the RX7 like a Ferrari with more untapped potential. Higher maintainence? Perhaps but it's a high end sports car - not a truck.

CARNEXUS

I know what you mean. I have seen pictures in some threads where chunks of metal have blown off the block and the crank showing, yet some Porsche builders claim you don't need sleeves what’s up with that. .

All I know is I love the 951's and I want see them make a mark in the tuner market.

I’m no builder I’m an enthusiast that reads quit a bit about cars, and I’ve don some work on Hondas. So I’m no expert, but from what I’ve seen other cars do, the 951’s have some serious potential.

nodestination1

Haha, I've been on this forum for like a month, and even im not stupid enough to question special tool. What was it, 560whp on a mustang? i think he knows the limits of some 951 parts.

I also think it's funny that you knock nissan's headgaskets, while it is a notable weak point of the 951, hence widefires and cometics.

300hp on 93 octane!? woah. I agree with solo, the fd3s and z32 are amazing cars. reliability isn't the greatest, but thats what you get when you buy something with roughly 300hp from the early 90s.

edit - sorry, totally forgot what this post was originally about. I havent looked too much into turbos yet, but i know people have had good luck wtih gt28rs and gt30rs... probably suitable for the power output you're lookin for.

RKD in OKC

Where are the VGTs??? And the EBC to run it with the 15 second scramble button?

Porschefile

Practically every model of production car from Japan has seen some 700-1000+whp power levels at some point. That's a bit of an exaggeration of course but, you get the idea. The 951 community is still fighting an uphill battle on one leg to break the 600whp mark. The Japanese tuning industry was pushing 1000whp back in the late 80's and early 90's. Dyno queen power sure isn't for everyone, and it's not what these cars were really built for, however pushing the limits in any form serves to really improve the public/community knowledge and further the progress of any vehicle. 951's have "truck" motors. They're nice, but not the greatest car in the world, get over it. The main problem I see from this community is many here are off in their own little world trying to reinvent the wheel. So what if the Japanese market has managed to push the limits farther? There's nothing wrong with having a bit of humility and looking at what they or other communities have done to accomplish certain things, though some here are too proud to do that and will never learn.

951 motors are not that dissimilar from Honda motors in that they both have an open block design and both can be improved in much the same manner with sleeves. I know it's blasphemy to speak this here however, there is a lot that could be learned without trial and error in this regard simply by browsing some Honda forums. Those guys have managed to find solutions and easily push well past 800-1000whp. Nothing wrong with learning from someone that's been there. There are differences in the motors of course, but there's nothing wrong with seeing what other people do to fix the same problems. That's about enough OT from me.

Rogue_Ant

Exactly.


Rogue

Fishey

Do you know how many people even know the CFM of a 16v head vs 8v head on here? How many people know stock vs modified head flow rates? Not to even bring into the picture flow velocity. Hell, people still don't understand sleeves. They also don't understand the differences between the two blocks (2.5l and 3.0l) or the standalone options out there that can easily be adapted via a flywheel swap to the older cars. I mean do we even need to start debating batch vs sequential injection or what kind of ignition coils to use. All these things are brought up on other car forums daily but not here. I have not even seen a reasonable debate on the advantages we have over japanese motors (Stronger bottom end, Displacement, Block Strength) and how we can use a much different built to bring about a far more usable power then they can produce around 800whp or 1000whp! I still love the people that think that you cannot use a 16v head because the valves are not sodium filled when they have no idea that it would be far past what anyone is currently making before we burn a valve. I have never even seen any datalogs posted about EGT and A/F on this forum. I did see my timeslip though of my $1,500 nitrous setup beating all but one turbo car in the 1/4mile and it was on a stock rod/piston combo that from what I understand blows apart at 250whp.

(Don't ask me cause I am not telling instead I am building and its costing me a ton of money.)

evil 944t

What does "Jabrony" mean? Is that spelled right?

tifosiman

Is that a brand similar to Zamboni?

special tool

Dude - you are getting the biggest smackdown for misquoting me!!

A.Wayne

Those power levels are not sustainable on 4 cylinder jap motors and a stock Honda engine will not go much over 400 ( B), the new K engine will handle more stock , I have worked with them all and do not find the Jap engines more reliable or better built to there German counterparts...
If most jap owners drove or tracked their cars with these 600-700 bhp engines they would not last 5 mins ...

For a good comparison you should be comparing the 944 engines to other engines of the same era , not the new multi-valve motors , you should be comparing it to the starion turbo 2.7, 4 cylinder , toyota 20R, 22R , for eg,, both came in turbocharged and are from the ssame era. I'm sure you will laugh at the comparison, as they where a joke to the 944 engine..

A.Wayne

Fishey,
The amount of BHP is not one of the requirements for going to sodium filled valves , you don't burn valves due to the amount of BHP being made...

Fishey

Your right its a result of EGT and fuel mixture more directly. Altho, it must be said that EGT's tend to increase as HP increases at a given A/F ratio. I think this is mainly the result of more stress on your turbo/supercharger (more boost) causing them to produce more heat. Though we also know that more power leads to more heat in the motor as there is more power being produced and along with it more heat. Sodium valves have two advantages that being weight and heat over a standard valve. Now, the only advantage the 8v head will have is in heat over the 16v head. The actual advantage in weight of the exhaust valve is offset by the larger valve size of the 2v setup vs the 4v setup. Also, the turbo head from what I understand is only outfitted with sodium filled exhaust valves. This means that it sees minimal benefits of sodium valves (You can reduce valve spring weight on the exhaust valve and thus reduce amount of effort needed to spin the cam shaft.) in terms of weight as the intake valve being larger is still the weak link. I don't know how much power is lost to the higher valve spring weight of the 16v head but I think the benefits of the head are so numerous that this concern is hardly even worth mentioning.