evil 944t

That was a joke. Truth be told, He never installed a crank, he got help from DDP.

Porschefile

Ask and ye shall receive:

Post #22

Post #42

Post #151 (there are more details on page 10 of that thread particularly #138) According to IanM, that's a 50 trim T3/T4R dual ball bearing running a TO4E .60a/r 3" compressor housing and .63a/r Garrett standard T3 4-bolt turbine housing and stage 3 turbine. He reports 15psi @ 2900rpm in 4th gear, and in that combination 350whp at a higher boost setting is a real possibility(just my estimate, take it with a grain of salt). It's nothing ground breaking compared to other stuff that's available for these cars, though it's not half bad either and at least the turbine side isn't so small that it would get choked out above 6k rpm like many turbos running #8 hotsides.

Just FYI but, on the first link I listed, that is comparing a GT35R and K27-7200. I don't know what A/R housing the 35R has, but I'm sure it's a .82A/R due to the displacement engine that setup is on (3.3L or 3.4L F6 I think?). If you notice, the 35R has an actual REAL GT series 4-bolt turbine housing. Tons of places that retail GT series turbos put the standard Garrett turbine housings on, which is pretty crappy as part of the appeal of GT series stuff is all of their efficient components, and the turbine housing is one of those. You can tell from some of the pictures, the real GT series turbine housing is velocity stack shaped which helps aid in increasing airflow velocity, which has it's obvious benefits. Anyways, one potential issue is the actual GT series turbine housing, if you notice from the pics, is an inch or 2 longer on the outlet side compared to the KKK housing. One simple solution for this would be to simply go with the Garrett standard T3 4-bolt turbine housing. While it might sacrifice a small amount of efficiency, if it made installation a lot easier for an individual, it's worth it IMO. Here's a few pics to compare the turbine housings I mentioned:

333pg333

theedge

So what does that have to do with half your posts being "I know XYZ and im not telling!" type crap? Such as the assine one at the start of this thread? You rag on the 951 community for not knowing these things, then proceed to say you for whatever reason do know, and then say youre not telling. What do you want, a big pat on the back? La de freaking da for you. I wonder why the flow figures and such arent general knowledge....

CARNEXUS

Ok so this is what I gathered from this whole thing tell me if I’m wrong.

1) 951’s are not pushing above 600 WHP is because the interest in them is track orientated, and on the track it’s about response not peak HP.

2) The myth that there are not too many of them available and there is not enough demand to mass produce parts/ kits etc, yet there are 14,235 imported in the USA.

3) The fact that it’s a Porsche, makes the parts cost way more than… say Honda parts, so the people that are willing to experiment and push the envelop end up with a Honda/ Toyota/ Nissan/ etc.

4) If you want,
A) HP numbers get a Supra, Skyline or a TT ZO6,
B) ¼ mile car get a car with an LSx/ 502/ 572 etc.
C) Track car go with the 951/ S2/ 968, because that is what they are made for.

5) We have got to create more threads like this to get some new ideas and get these
passionate people talking more often.

Please ad to the list if I missed any thing it’s midnight, I can’t think and I can’t stop reading this damn thread.

SoloRacer

Number 2 is not a myth. Set up business that caters to 951 owners. Find out for yourself how limited the numbers are. Every dog and their kid has a Civic, 350Z, etc - heck there are more of those cars imported every year than the total importation of 951's. On top of that the worldwide production numbers for the Honda Civic, MR2, etc. is much higher than for the 951 and as a result you have much larger corporations building parts for them (HKS, Greddy, etc.) along with factory sponsored performance upgrades (Mazdaspeed, Mugen, TRD, NISMO, etc.) Take a look at a couple of other cars with the same production in North America as the 951 - like the NSX or 3rd Gen RX7 for example. There are a very small number of companies that cater to the NSX or RX7 here too. Fortunately in Japan though there is support for the car and many - if not most - of the aftermarket parts come from there. Find me a similar situation in Germany for the 951. You can't because the aftermarket support is not there - mainly because there isn't a big enough market for it. Believe what you want but 14K cars is nothing in the big picture. Even the worldwide numbers of 25K cars built is minimal. Hell there were 31,000 Corvettes made in 1998 alone. So if you still think 14000 is a high number take a look at this article

http://www.autoblog.com/2006/10/24/c...o-get-boosted/

where it states that last year they boosted Civic production by 60,000 cars to make 440,000 - and that is only what was imported to the US in one year! Multiply that by the number of years they were in production and it dwarfs 951 production. When you look at the facts reasonably and then consider that the cars have not been made in 17 years so the actual numbers still around today is probably only 1/2 that number I think we can agree that this too small a market for any major player to get involved - not a "myth" as you state.

P.S. MR2 Production numbers (130,000 in US & Canada, 110,000 in Japan)

333pg333

Based on that we're in fact very lucky to have the aftermarket stuff that we have and the vendors who go out on a limb to stock/supply/modify it.

gt37vgt

if your tight you can drill and tap the inlet face of the t03 hotside and retain your kkk crossover pipe I've had one against the other .

S2cab

[QUOTE=George D;4706641
I was just joking about the diesel. I've seen some pretty good low boost S2 and 968 turbo cars. Low boost being 8 to 10 psi cars and all factory internals. These setups use a very small turbo, and have little lag. Powerhaus and a few other vendors sell these kits in the 6K range. 300whp and stocklike driveability. You will get the best of the S2 stock low end with much more power on tap.[/QUOTE]

I'd prefer to start with a factory turbo car. I've gone the factory N/A & then add F/I route, & it becomes a headache.

Oddjob

For track use, its not about response vs peak HP, its about blowing up vs. realiability. Track duty, is very, very hard on cars (specifically the motor) compared to street, autocross or drag racing. The extended full throttle/full load driving puts significantly more heat and pressure into the components.

I would anticipate that most 700 to 1000 hp engines, with less than about 6.0-7.0 ltrs discplacement are prone to being grenades when driven on the track. I have never seen a boosted honda, with the power to pull GT3s down a straight, ever make a lap on a road course. Has it been done, probably, but not often and the reason is because they wont last long doing it.

Thats why real 911 Turbo engines built as race motors with 500+ hp output are north of $30-40k. 400 hp 996-997 Cup motors are only good for 60-80 hours tops, and whats a PMNA/Andial rebuild going for these days? I know the old 964/993 RSR 3.8 motors were $25k + for just a refresh. And thats why it will cost you well into five figures to get a 951 race motor built by Milledge or Kelly Moss.

You can make some huge power number from any engine, if you toss out concerns about reliabilty. But its not going to last 100k miles on the street, or 1000 miles on the track.

Oddjob

Most of the catastrophic block explosions are due to rod failures (rod bearing seizure is the most common cause), not cylinder wall failures. Steel sleeves may reduce obvious damage to the cylinder caused by a rod failure, but the block will still be junk.

Oddjob

Schardts have been winning PCA Club Races with their E-Class Turbo S cars for years. They were on top of the podium back in the mid and late 90's when guys like Karl Poeltl and Mark Hupfer will still running in the mid to back of the pack.

Im not sure what you or P3 Automotive do on the Schardts' cars now, but they were very well built, setup, and tuned by another shop at least 10 years ago, and have been well driven since.

To make sure Im not misunderstanding you, are you supporting your statements about building 951 race motors by claiming credit for the Schardts’ success, or using their success as an example of your personal knowledge and experience?

Fishey

Maybe you should read my statement I first made I said most of the setup is actually there own from what I understand. I don't really think shops had alot to do with the cars outside of what we do at P3 automotive (Repairs/Alignments/Corner balancing/Swaybar Adjustments/etc..) Atleast thats the understanding I get when I talk to Jim about the cars. Now, I simply put them up there to show that I have been involved with racing and know what goes into a car. I also know that Shardts car could go faster if they needed to from other work that would not put them out of there current class. However, I don't think any of them would ever feel the need to do the work as the cars do very well in the current setup.

Oddjob

I read all of them, thats why Im questioning you - your statements do not indicate that you actually have much experience with building and racing 951s.

pk951

Thats why real 911 Turbo engines built as race motors with 500+ hp output are north of $30-40k. 400 hp 996-997 Cup motors are only good for 60-80 hours tops, and whats a PMNA/Andial rebuild going for these days? I know the old 964/993 RSR 3.8 motors were $25k + for just a refresh. And thats why it will cost you well into five figures to get a 951 race motor built by Milledge or Kelly Moss.

What build materials does Milledge and moss and company use that the average joe does not use. Why are there engines more realiably?