951and944S

Which ones do you mean....?

You can turn your own factory struts into ride height ajustable coilovers with some mechanical skill and their coilover "kit". These will be single adjustable and the kit allows you to pick whatever spring rate you want.

If you meant the double adj. conversion explained above, it's here -

http://www.paragon-products.com/prod...ni8742conv.htm

T

johntorg

Actually, I have been looking for an NA race car. I just haven't found the right one. What's the going price for a mid-pack car? I 've been looking at a 924S, but in looking at recent results, I'm not sure how competitive it is.

333pg333

That's probably the best suggestion here!
Something I also forgot and I believe it is REALLY crucial is the matter of oiling. Most of us have had issues with oil starvation on the track that winds up in very expensive and time consuming re-builds including all the 'while you're in there' options. There are many different theories in dealing with this from doing nothing at all, to overfilling your oil levels, to accusumps, to baffles, to scrapers, to dry sumping. Obviously d/s is the best and most expensive but still may be the cheapest mod you do. However I would also contact Evil 944 about this as he has both dry and wet sumps available and will give you a good idea of what you can do.
http://www.customengineeredperformance.com/

M758

Send them back to Koni.

M758

944 spec prices
Minumum $6k complete race ready, but not very pretty. Could be winner, but might be a few items shy.

10k for more finely appointed car and prettier. Not always any faster, but should good for wins if the driver can make it happen

12k+ = Car has all the best parts and well build. It will be pretty and fast. Wins dependent on the driver.

In 944 spec there is no car to have either model year or type.

The biggest cost savings in run in a 944 NA (spec type trim) vs a 944 Turbo are the following

Tires = 944 spec uses 225/50 R15 RA-1's These last and at $128 each are cheaper than in the 15" size vs 16"
Wheels = Get a set of wheels 15x7 for $200-$300.
Fuel = run pump gas and get better gas mileage
Brakes = NA brakes work fine on these cars and are cheaper than 951 items.
Repairs/Maintaince items = Labor is easier on the 944 NA due to less plumbing and parts cost are either the same or less. Also with less hp you stress the common parts less than a turbo thus allowing them to last longer.
No risk of Tubro fever (Turbo fever is the desire to make more hp and thus reduce the reliablity of the motor).

Turbo's are of course faster given equal mods

johntorg

M758: Does Koni US do the rebuild/conversion or only Koni Holland? I have been doing some searching for a ready to race NA. There is not really any Spec activity here in the SE. I was wondering how Spec cars do in the 44 cup? All this help is greatly appreciated.

M758

Not sure about which Koni. I'd call paragon to help do this and work through them.


944 spec cars in 944 cup.

At Nationals the best 944 cup cars ran. 4th and 5th were 944 spec cars running at 2650lbs and using non toyo's. The 5th pace driver ran just as fast on Toyo as he did on hoosiers although he had a slight sway bar issue when ran the cup race on Hoosiers.


It appears that in 2007 a spec car was competitive in 944 cup. The rules are slightly different for 2008 with some different weights and I can't say a 100% spec legal car would be competitive in 944 cup. They are allowing the car to run at 2500lbs and I don't know if you could get one that low. Even so a nice 944 spec will run in the pack of 944 cup cars and most of the speed difference will be in the drivers. 944 spec is taking off and spreading east, but the cup fields are larger in the mid-atlantic area. You can always sign up in spec and just run there in the 944 cup pack. You may even get 2-3 other spec prepared cars to run with you.

Bottomline if you build it to spec it will stil run ok in cup and you could further developed into an all out cup car in time. At 100% cup build is won't use Koni yellows like we do in spec. The nationals winner is talking about using Penske's next year. Those are a 100% shock, but cost at least 10x what a koni costs. So using Koni's gets you 95% of the way there at one tenth the cost. That 5% however in competitive class makes the difference between first and 5th to 6th.

951and944S

Joe....and more so directed at John -

Maybe Joe can point out a Cup or Spec legality issue that I'm missing but I don't see why you can't take the '86 turbo chassis, trade brakes and front noses with an NA (I'm sure your candidate resides here on the forum), sell the turbo engine and buy an NA engine w/harness and you're good to go....., not only saving the $6000 entry cost of a lower level entirely different car but being money ahead.

Surely the turbo gearboxes bring twice what a used NA 5 speed cost so you're +$$ there and you have the DME and KLR to sell not to mention the $$ ahead you'd be by selling the turbo engine for an NA.

You're sitting there, in as fast as you could make it happen, with an NA car for basically free with the $6000 you were gonna buy one with to spend on yours,

Paint job,
new torsion bars, bushings, sway bars
front strut conversion
rotors/pads
Seat, harness, safety

You're golden....

T

johntorg

That's an interesting thought. does anyone know if I even have to swap the bodywork? I also have a 944 S2 transmission that has the right gear ratios, but is much stronger than the NA transmission. I'll read the rule book, but any input into this possibility would be appreciated.

M758

I can't speak for cup rules, but this is not allowed in 944 spec. The reason is that we don't know if there is some difference in the 951 tub that may be an advantage over the 944 NA tub. My gut tells me they are the same, but that is not good enough. The last thing we can have in 944 spec is to have someone FIND that using an Turbo chassis is an advantage. That is horrible for the class and to prevent it we only allow 83-88 944 NA chassis. I believe you probably could us an S chassis mostly because the VIN's are the same so I'd bet we could never determine anythign other than the chassis was a 87 or 88 944 NA.

So for now the 951, 944 S2, and early 924 chassis are NOT LEGAL in 944 spec. This could change if the supply of cheap 944 tubs drys up, but I don't see that happening any time soon.

M758

Body work must be either 944 NA or 924S. You can't use 951 bodywork or mix 924S fenders with 944 fenders. Your are allowed to run either 924S or 944 hatch spoilers on either car, but are required to run one of the two.

944 S2 tranmissions are not legal in 944 spec either. The final drive is different for one thing. The other is that all things that make it stronger make it unique from the 83-88 gearboxes 2.5L NA 8valve gearboxes allows so also not legal. You would be ok using 89 944 2.7L. gearbox as it did not change from 88 and therefore is same part number. The 944S gearbox has a few different ratios and is not legal.

Remember the idea of 944 spec is to have equal cars by requiring equal parts as much as can allowed for. The cars are old so for cost reasons requiring everthing be OEM or original on that is just not realistic. In fact being able update/backdate throughout the model year range is critical when looking for junkyard replacement parts. However allowing "close" parts, but not quite the same is just not in the way the class was developed.

johntorg

Thanks for the information. There are usually no Spec cars running here so I am building a 44 Cup car. The 44 cup rules are a little more liberal, but I'm not sure if its allowed there either. I have asked the 44 cup director and will post his reply.

944CS

Joe, what ball joints do the spec guys run?

M758

Stock,
I run steel arms so ball joints are not an issue.

The aluminium arm cars run stock arms with stock original joints or standard replacements. Suprisingly ball joint failures are rare in spec cars. We have been doing this since 2002 and I have seen 3-4 ball joints fail over that time. Certainly nothing significant enough to justify allowing alternate parts.

I can only guess this sucess is from the cars being lightweight and using small not so stickly 225/50 R15 Toyo RA-1's.

johntorg

Just thought I'd give an update. I just bought a 44 cup/GTS1 turnkey car. Here are the specs. This means I have a 951 Roller, with Konis and a non-lsd transmission for sale for the first $800 I also have an 80K mile turbo complete engine for sale $1300 and a complete Turbo Engine wiring harness $200. I have DE with my street car this weekend and then I'm leaving on a one week trip. I will post the details when I return.

General
’83 chassis prepared to SCCA ITS specs. Purchased in late ’03 and re-worked for the ’04 season. ’04 Season Mid-Atlantic Champion. Several track records including VIR – Full Course – 2:18.341 and past Summit Point 1:28.071 (official race lap, qual lap in the 1:27’s)

Raced for most of ’05 Season – cracked clutch disc caused downshift difficulties and impacted finishing results for the last 3 rounds (until properly diagnosed).

2nd in GTS1 class 2007 NASA Nationals at Mid-Ohio

NASA and SCCA Logbooks. Also eligible for PCA SP2.

Recent Maintenance includes:
· New Clutch – June ’06 (3 race weekends since)
· Gearbox overhaul, all new synchros, selector rail, two new gears – 100% Factory parts – 8/06, 1 race weekend on gearbox
· Head Refresh currently underway, injectors professionally cleaned and serviced
· New shifter bushings and shift rail


. 8 point custom cage with a lot of additional bracing. Fully Compliant with the new ‘07 SCCA and NASA cage specifications.
· Custom-Made Ballast Plates – Mount through Passenger seat mounts
· Quick-Release Steering Wheel
· VDO Guages – Water Temp, Oil Temp, Oil Pressure
· Stewart-Warner 5” Race Tach
· Custom Toggle Panel – Starter, Fan, Wipers, Cool-Suit Power, Spare
· Ultrashield Aluminum race seat with seatback brace
· Interior bottom surface professionally painted with “trunk paint”
· 5 Point FIA Harness good until 2010
· Sunroof covered for hardtop look
· Custom-made front splitter
· Extensive Graphics
· Ding in P-side quarter panel behind driver’s door from on-track incident
· New, Factory-color paint in spring ‘04
· Brand-New Windshield – Not seen the track yet
· All spherical bearings in suspension
· Koni adjustables
· 475lb Hypercoil front springs, rear torsion-bars - lowered and indexed
· Adjustable brake-bias valve
· (12) wheels - 8 cookies (15x7) and 4 BBS (15x7)
· 1 Set of Hoosier RS06's w/ 5 heat cycles, One set of RS05’s with about 18 cycles
· Long race studs in front wheels
· Factory calipers cleaned and lubed, CarboTech pads
· SS Brake Lines
· Reinforced steel factory A-Arms
· Weltmeister Front/Rear Adjustable Sway Bars with “Competition” Adjustable front drop links
· Camber plates and front strut brace
· 2.7 engine, fresh rings/bearings/hone/headwork in winter '03, fresh rod bearings winter '04
· Custom cold-air intake, Autothority Custom Chip,
· Dyno Sheets Available – Should dyno around 155HP w/ fresh head and injectors
· Fordahl motorsports custom header w/ 3" exhaust and Borla exhaust
· Turbo Radiator (new ’05), Solid Engine Mounts
· Fresh Injectors (serviced by Marren Fuel Injection), 0 Hours
· Lindsey Adjustable Fuel Pressure Regulator
· 3 row mocal oil cooler, all braided hoses, Accusump, Turbo Oil Filter Housing
· Sachs Clutch – New ’06 – 3 race weekends
· Early LSD gearbox w/3.89 and short 5th - 1 race w/e since overhaul by IMA (8/06) ($2000)
· Short-Shift Kit