intercooler
#46
Three Wheelin'
Originally Posted by 333pg333
If we look at increasing the size of all these pre-port components, what part does the actual turbo inlet/outlet play? For example if we have a 2" outlet isn't this the restriction from the get go?
Yep. Having any restriction at any point of the path of airflow is going to reduce the effectiveness of "upgrading" other areas, however it doesn't completely negate the need to upgrade. This is pretty apparent as even with the stock IC end tank mods people still see power increases. Check out dynos of the LR stage 5 and SFR IC as well. Even with other stock components like a stock intake, stock TB, etc there are still worthwhile gains to be had, even on a stock turbo.
#47
I do not like the idea of cutting the frame because of bigger IC. Have any of you experience of water/air IC's mounted on 951? Water/air IC can be rather small and still have a capacity what bigger "normal" IC have.
#48
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The way I understand it that HP really is not the key but air flow more of a factor. Basically stock head, No need for more than a stage two IC
1. AIR FLOW. The intercooler is but one component of the entire intake/exhaust system (flow). If you upgrade to increase flow, then the intercooler should also be considered. Your upgrades to improve flow (exhaust, turbo, head, intake, maf, air filter) will only be as good as the most restrictive component. Thus a less restrictive intercooler should be concidered.
2. HEAT. When air is compressed, it heats up (Laws of Physics). A turbocharger is just a fancy air compressor. So if you increase boost (increase the compression of combustion air) you will increase heat load. To reduce the risk of "pre-detonation" you will need to reduce the intake air temps on a similar factor as the added heat from the boost increase. Thus a larger intercooler which can reject more heat should again be concidered.
Reliability and Horsepower are simply byproducts of all the above, and then some.
Last edited by Bill; 03-23-2007 at 03:17 PM.
#49
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A bit of Intercooler history or "When and Why" the intercooler was invented.
In the 70's, Porsche set out to break the "Closed Circuit" speed record. Porsche sent Roger Penske and Mark Donahue to Datona with a shiny new turbocharged 917.
Wow, SHINY NEW 917. That thought is like Christmas in my head......
After several attempts, Donahue melted down two of the beautiful 917 engines. Penske called the engineers at Porsche and a couple of days later, the Wizards at Weisach sent Penske an "intercooler". Penske installed this "intercooler" and then Donahue with his BIG brass cahones, proceeded to smash the record. Sadly Mark Donahue's cahones were eventually larger than his skill, and he was lossed in a fatal racing accident. RIP Mark Donahue, one of the greatest Porsche hot shoes.
EXCELLENCE WAS EXPECTED - The Porsche/Penske/Donahue record stood till the 90's. An Indy car was used to finally break the mighty 917's record.
REMEMBER: Those do not learn from history, are doomed to repeat it.
Discaimer: The above trivia was reconstituted from my decrepid memory. Exacting facts of the actual events are not implied.
In the 70's, Porsche set out to break the "Closed Circuit" speed record. Porsche sent Roger Penske and Mark Donahue to Datona with a shiny new turbocharged 917.
Wow, SHINY NEW 917. That thought is like Christmas in my head......
After several attempts, Donahue melted down two of the beautiful 917 engines. Penske called the engineers at Porsche and a couple of days later, the Wizards at Weisach sent Penske an "intercooler". Penske installed this "intercooler" and then Donahue with his BIG brass cahones, proceeded to smash the record. Sadly Mark Donahue's cahones were eventually larger than his skill, and he was lossed in a fatal racing accident. RIP Mark Donahue, one of the greatest Porsche hot shoes.
EXCELLENCE WAS EXPECTED - The Porsche/Penske/Donahue record stood till the 90's. An Indy car was used to finally break the mighty 917's record.
REMEMBER: Those do not learn from history, are doomed to repeat it.
Discaimer: The above trivia was reconstituted from my decrepid memory. Exacting facts of the actual events are not implied.
Last edited by Bill; 03-23-2007 at 03:42 PM.
#50
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Originally Posted by Porschefile
Yep. Having any restriction at any point of the path of airflow is going to reduce the effectiveness of "upgrading" other areas, however it doesn't completely negate the need to upgrade. This is pretty apparent as even with the stock IC end tank mods people still see power increases. Check out dynos of the LR stage 5 and SFR IC as well. Even with other stock components like a stock intake, stock TB, etc there are still worthwhile gains to be had, even on a stock turbo.
#51
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Originally Posted by AlexE
Here is an early test fit.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Unive...9901QQtcZphoto
Last edited by anders44; 03-23-2007 at 09:28 PM.
#52
Originally Posted by 333pg333
So as we know there are quite large turbo's with 2" outlets, if we go up to 2.5 or even 3" pipes do we not lose some pressure. Like a river flowing into a bay sort of effect?
#53
Originally Posted by anders44
is this the one? lookes like one of the better solutions imho and might even route the tubes with no cutting, gonna do some measurements.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Unive...9901QQtcZphoto
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Unive...9901QQtcZphoto
Now go and weld some longer outlets and sell it for 899.00
I think the Anders Stage 1 would work.......
I went with the 2.5 inch inlet/outlet since I am running 2.5 hard pipes.........
In case you are wondering I have a 1 7/8-2" outlet on the turbo.
#54
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since it has backward exit pipes it can sit higher and get more airflow not obstructed by liscense plates part of bumper, also actually easier to do pipes, yes 2.5" should be more than enough.. I only find backwards 2.5" anyway, the v-mount top thing that special tool has is 3" though.
makeing a cardboard mockup and removeing the bumper to doe some testing..
flowwise backward exit and input is bad compared to let's say the one special tool has, but the added exposed surface area should hopefully make up for it, also it covers less of the radiator.
makeing a cardboard mockup and removeing the bumper to doe some testing..
flowwise backward exit and input is bad compared to let's say the one special tool has, but the added exposed surface area should hopefully make up for it, also it covers less of the radiator.
#55
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Perhaps an intercooler originally meant for a Grand National:
Ebay Grand National Intercooler
It looks almost as though the intercooler inlet and outlet will fit through the stock location...
Rogue
Ebay Grand National Intercooler
It looks almost as though the intercooler inlet and outlet will fit through the stock location...
Rogue
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Yeah, been following this thread for a few days and had the same thoughts as Rogue regarding the G/N cooler...looks like it might go. I won't have access to my car for a couple of weeks. Can anyone else do a mockup on this one?
#57
Originally Posted by special tool
Why do you always chastize me answering a direct question by the ****ing thread starter, kid????
I answered the ****ing question.
Don't read into my statements.
OBVIOUSLY (to a non-moron) the stock cooler is not good for sustained 600 HP.
I answered the ****ing question.
Don't read into my statements.
OBVIOUSLY (to a non-moron) the stock cooler is not good for sustained 600 HP.
#58
Great, this is exactly what we don't need.. take it off line.
https://rennlist.com/forums/showthread.php?t=334616
Now what was this post about?
https://rennlist.com/forums/showthread.php?t=334616
Now what was this post about?
#59
Former Vendor
Please explain, with pictures, how do you place a 3" thick IC without cutting frame rails??
EDIT: And without slashing bumper cover?
Or is it so that the aluminium bumper has to be notched ( as well as bumper cover from inside ) to fit IC's outer corners? I guess then all those threaded studs on front frame rail have to cut off too?
I would like to see pictures taken from the top and bottom before proceeding...I do have one IC core here, just want to be sure before making end tanks and removing parts of my car.
EDIT: And without slashing bumper cover?
Or is it so that the aluminium bumper has to be notched ( as well as bumper cover from inside ) to fit IC's outer corners? I guess then all those threaded studs on front frame rail have to cut off too?
I would like to see pictures taken from the top and bottom before proceeding...I do have one IC core here, just want to be sure before making end tanks and removing parts of my car.
Last edited by pete95zhn; 03-24-2007 at 05:18 AM.
#60
Rennlist Member
This is the site of the guy who I am getting to make up a custom i/c which looks like it will fit similarly to ST's photo. His work is second to none and uses all the best components and cores. The welding is a work of art. Although I will be paying for it I am happy to have an expert make something just for my car rather than something off the shelf. The cheaper option will probably be approx 85% as good but I will leave the car with him on a Monday and pick it up on a Friday all fitted and drive away. I shall post photo's within a month.
http://www.plazmaman.com/
http://www.plazmaman.com/