v8 ls1 vs vitesse stage 1
#16
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Originally Posted by 944J
I think that was what I read on their site, but their site seems to be down... this was just for the engine building, not installation, tuning, etc...
#17
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Originally Posted by ivai
John, in looking on Vitesseracing.com at the stage I and II kits, and the dyno charts, I only see what boost the dynos were run at. Is the engine configuration detailed somewhere else?
Of relevance to this thread, what was the configuration of that stage I dyno? Also, the stage II dyno (VRSTAGE2's car) making 341 rwhp.. Do you know if it had anything besides injectors/wastegate and your kit?
Of relevance to this thread, what was the configuration of that stage I dyno? Also, the stage II dyno (VRSTAGE2's car) making 341 rwhp.. Do you know if it had anything besides injectors/wastegate and your kit?
ALL kits require injectors, that's a must. Most cars already have dual port WG, some of the AFM K26 cars might have shimmed stock WG. Most cars have a test pipe... Whatever information the customer sends me with the chart, I'll display it.
#18
Originally Posted by fast951
Ivai, I believe the dyno for Stage 2 is from VRSTAGE2. I think someone else sent me a chart as well. With over 1000 emails every other week, it's hard to keep track of who's who.
ALL kits require injectors, that's a must. Most cars already have dual port WG, some of the AFM K26 cars might have shimmed stock WG. Most cars have a test pipe... Whatever information the customer sends me with the chart, I'll display it.
ALL kits require injectors, that's a must. Most cars already have dual port WG, some of the AFM K26 cars might have shimmed stock WG. Most cars have a test pipe... Whatever information the customer sends me with the chart, I'll display it.
Also let me know if you want to target some keywords in the search engines, I have great success in getting #1 rankings on Google for my search engine optimization customers.
#19
???? still the cost is very high for a v8 that gets the same or less HP/TQ as a stock 951 with a vitesse kit
I think you are making a huge oversight.
torque across all rpm and peak torque. Peak torque is real nice for bench racing but IS NOT anything like comparing the sustained torque output of larger dispacement.
Also you are not accounting for the fact that you have cheap mod capability w GM v8 versus anything in porsche world.
For around 5K can build street killer 406 small block in the 425+ HP range that are streetable 2500-6000 flat torque curve killer durable engines. In the real world is night and day advantage over 425HP peak power 4cylturbo. Not bashing, just reality. Torque is key, having it accrros the powerband doesn't look impresive on a dyno, but will impress the seat of your pants and will flat outperform. 4cyl turbo can't compare in this respect.
I also woul dispute 11,500-12,500 for reasonable conversion. If you are doing your own work and have fabrication skills and ability this is inflated for the power levels you are talking about IMHO
my biggest concern would be trannies. You better stockpile 951 trannies if you drive hard with a v8 conversion.
my odd 02
I think you are making a huge oversight.
torque across all rpm and peak torque. Peak torque is real nice for bench racing but IS NOT anything like comparing the sustained torque output of larger dispacement.
Also you are not accounting for the fact that you have cheap mod capability w GM v8 versus anything in porsche world.
For around 5K can build street killer 406 small block in the 425+ HP range that are streetable 2500-6000 flat torque curve killer durable engines. In the real world is night and day advantage over 425HP peak power 4cylturbo. Not bashing, just reality. Torque is key, having it accrros the powerband doesn't look impresive on a dyno, but will impress the seat of your pants and will flat outperform. 4cyl turbo can't compare in this respect.
I also woul dispute 11,500-12,500 for reasonable conversion. If you are doing your own work and have fabrication skills and ability this is inflated for the power levels you are talking about IMHO
my biggest concern would be trannies. You better stockpile 951 trannies if you drive hard with a v8 conversion.
my odd 02
#20
Originally Posted by 2bridges
???? still the cost is very high for a v8 that gets the same or less HP/TQ as a stock 951 with a vitesse kit
I think you are making a huge oversight.
torque across all rpm and peak torque. Peak torque is real nice for bench racing but IS NOT anything like comparing the sustained torque output of larger dispacement.
Also you are not accounting for the fact that you have cheap mod capability w GM v8 versus anything in porsche world.
For around 5K can build street killer 406 small block in the 425+ HP range that are streetable 2500-6000 flat torque curve killer durable engines. In the real world is night and day advantage over 425HP peak power 4cylturbo. Not bashing, just reality. Torque is key, having it accrros the powerband doesn't look impresive on a dyno, but will impress the seat of your pants and will flat outperform. 4cyl turbo can't compare in this respect.
I also woul dispute 11,500-12,500 for reasonable conversion. If you are doing your own work and have fabrication skills and ability this is inflated for the power levels you are talking about IMHO
my biggest concern would be trannies. You better stockpile 951 trannies if you drive hard with a v8 conversion.
my odd 02
I think you are making a huge oversight.
torque across all rpm and peak torque. Peak torque is real nice for bench racing but IS NOT anything like comparing the sustained torque output of larger dispacement.
Also you are not accounting for the fact that you have cheap mod capability w GM v8 versus anything in porsche world.
For around 5K can build street killer 406 small block in the 425+ HP range that are streetable 2500-6000 flat torque curve killer durable engines. In the real world is night and day advantage over 425HP peak power 4cylturbo. Not bashing, just reality. Torque is key, having it accrros the powerband doesn't look impresive on a dyno, but will impress the seat of your pants and will flat outperform. 4cyl turbo can't compare in this respect.
I also woul dispute 11,500-12,500 for reasonable conversion. If you are doing your own work and have fabrication skills and ability this is inflated for the power levels you are talking about IMHO
my biggest concern would be trannies. You better stockpile 951 trannies if you drive hard with a v8 conversion.
my odd 02
are you talking 425RWHP or 425 HP at the crank? I priced a 410 CRANK HP engine for $8,000 - http://www.turnkeyenginesupply.com/street_57410.htm
410 crank hp is only 295 RWHP and then you have all the pain of the installation costs and smogging...
I love the idea of a big v8 in my 944, but I live in California and I want the lowest cost and easiest way at fun and reliable street HP/TQ.
#23
LOL - What I speak of is not crate engine. I have built a few exactly as mentioned. In fact am waiting for the final few parts for latest one for a street rod project.
If you are really serious I can provide you with component list needed to build. Any competant machinist can build and assemble. I imagine my local machinist would build it and ship to you for the right $$
If you are really serious I can provide you with component list needed to build. Any competant machinist can build and assemble. I imagine my local machinist would build it and ship to you for the right $$
#24
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Originally Posted by 944J
am I calculating the rwhp correctly at -.28%?
#26
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2 bridges, I'll find the other thread for you. the guy who built it owned a shop, did all his work, fabrication, purchased from renegade what he had to.
from the thread, found it. draw your own conclusions.
****
I took on this swap as there is not much more to do with a N/A but scrap 'em. I called up Renegade and got the low down on the conversion bits. I was told "we are back logged, but we can get you a kit."
The guys there (Mike & Scott) are good dudes, and Scott himself is a VERY good salesman, so I went with the basic kit +. He told me "30 days" for the stuff to show. I paid 1/2 the total, then told him I would look over the "option list" and add to the order the next day.
I did that (my total reached $5000 + with options) and then started to dismantle the N/A 944
"...michael, if you plan on doing these as turnkey cars i bet you'd turn 'em like hot cakes. i'm curious once it's all done and in there is it easy to work on the car for routine type maintenance?.."
a few days later...
Yes, I agree. I think I could do a turn key machine for as low as $15,000 to as much as $20,000 - car included if $3- $4k n/a!
It looks as if maintenance will be a cake walk. However, the oil pan has so many baffles, that the oil drains out at a snails pace. I spoke with RH about that, they said "yes, we know. But its better to have great baffles & not starve the pump pickup then get fast oil drainage."
To that I agree.
from the thread, found it. draw your own conclusions.
****
I took on this swap as there is not much more to do with a N/A but scrap 'em. I called up Renegade and got the low down on the conversion bits. I was told "we are back logged, but we can get you a kit."
The guys there (Mike & Scott) are good dudes, and Scott himself is a VERY good salesman, so I went with the basic kit +. He told me "30 days" for the stuff to show. I paid 1/2 the total, then told him I would look over the "option list" and add to the order the next day.
I did that (my total reached $5000 + with options) and then started to dismantle the N/A 944
"...michael, if you plan on doing these as turnkey cars i bet you'd turn 'em like hot cakes. i'm curious once it's all done and in there is it easy to work on the car for routine type maintenance?.."
a few days later...
Yes, I agree. I think I could do a turn key machine for as low as $15,000 to as much as $20,000 - car included if $3- $4k n/a!
It looks as if maintenance will be a cake walk. However, the oil pan has so many baffles, that the oil drains out at a snails pace. I spoke with RH about that, they said "yes, we know. But its better to have great baffles & not starve the pump pickup then get fast oil drainage."
To that I agree.
#27
944J - did not mean for post to sound ****ty...... I would really be willing to send you details.
crate engine is cool, but you can build so much more for your money. Not as easy as crate engine just order and go, but well worth consideration.
400HP (wheel) is very easiy attained while keeping most street manners in a small block chevy. No exotic, one off parts, just readily available aftermarket stuff.
Since you are in CA I would carefully consider impacts. With my cam choice I suspect my have emmision issue at idle. If serous consideration for v8 route - go talk to local machinist that does higher end or race motors. You will likely find a wealth of information availaible right there.
_________________________________________________________________
yes ski - please share link if you find - would not mind reading.
-can buy mountains of square tubing/welding wire/gas for $1000
crate engine is cool, but you can build so much more for your money. Not as easy as crate engine just order and go, but well worth consideration.
400HP (wheel) is very easiy attained while keeping most street manners in a small block chevy. No exotic, one off parts, just readily available aftermarket stuff.
Since you are in CA I would carefully consider impacts. With my cam choice I suspect my have emmision issue at idle. If serous consideration for v8 route - go talk to local machinist that does higher end or race motors. You will likely find a wealth of information availaible right there.
_________________________________________________________________
yes ski - please share link if you find - would not mind reading.
-can buy mountains of square tubing/welding wire/gas for $1000
#28
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If a crate engine is what you're looking for, consider an LS2 400HP 400lbft. $5700. http://www.gilbertchevy.com/frame.ht...ckV8s/LS2.html Type LS2 into the search feature. . . poor website, but decent info.
I agree with 2bridges on that you can build quite a motor for not a ton of cash.
I agree with 2bridges on that you can build quite a motor for not a ton of cash.
#29
I got my crate 355ci for my Camaro through YearOne, I'm not sure if they still sell it but it was a steal. $2,900 and it's dynoed at 432hp. However you'd have to supply your own fuel system. I've opted carburated for my drag car, cheaper and easier to tune between runs.
#30
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Originally Posted by dime1622
doesn't california require all mods to have CARB certification?