3.0 turbo completed
12-22-2006, 08:53 PM
#49
Advanced
Nick's engine was a little less of a challenge than the 3.2 to build, but with its own little problems which had to be overcome.
In particular it took us along a route of making a solution for piston squirters... A new 3.0 968 block comes without any piston squirters installed. But it seems you cant buy 968 piston squirters on their own and we didnt like the 968 piston squirters or the way they are mounted... So as a result, now any engine that Simon builds for JMG/9XX will have the option of our piston oil squirter solution.
Also it was a nightmare to find an elegant solution for the wastegate location, as the 968 bell housing does not leave the room in the trans tunnel that the 951 has...
Nick went for the part DIY option, where we built and installed the engine, along with getting it over the initial hurdles, then Nick can take the time to smooth out the bugs, tidy up and take it to the next level.
It also has to be said that we were first talking to Nick about this engine I think back in 2002 which is when we were also first playing with steel wet liners with ceramic coating.. Nick then did his homework, research and came up with almost a 95% complete blow by blow solution and parts list.
If Nick was a millionare, he would have had his car completed a long time ago, which is a shame, because he has shown an amazing level of dedication to this project going back to a time when a 3.0 turbo was almost unheard of... Its almost as if he should have some credit for his vision going back a few years.
Nick's 968 turbo is the second conversion we have completed this year from 968 to 968 8v turbo.. Unfortunately the previous one was for a race car which lasted a very short time before the performance overtook the drivers ability (it flipped ends and hit the armco going about 100mph backwards during a race), but is due to be reincarnated into another 968 shell in the new year.
Nicks 968 was especially traumatic as the first time it was due to be started was 150 miles away from our workshop... So Simon (our engine builder) and I spent many hours worrying both before D-Day and during the course of the day at the Motec programmers workshop... But once a couple of electrical gremlins had been tracked down, she fired into life and Simon and I could sleep at night again (I dont think Nick, Simon or I slept the night before!)
Nick, remember we are here for you during the tidy up phase and for any hurdles that are yet to be found!
All the best
Jon Mitchell
JMG/9XX
www.9xx.co.uk
In particular it took us along a route of making a solution for piston squirters... A new 3.0 968 block comes without any piston squirters installed. But it seems you cant buy 968 piston squirters on their own and we didnt like the 968 piston squirters or the way they are mounted... So as a result, now any engine that Simon builds for JMG/9XX will have the option of our piston oil squirter solution.
Also it was a nightmare to find an elegant solution for the wastegate location, as the 968 bell housing does not leave the room in the trans tunnel that the 951 has...
Nick went for the part DIY option, where we built and installed the engine, along with getting it over the initial hurdles, then Nick can take the time to smooth out the bugs, tidy up and take it to the next level.
It also has to be said that we were first talking to Nick about this engine I think back in 2002 which is when we were also first playing with steel wet liners with ceramic coating.. Nick then did his homework, research and came up with almost a 95% complete blow by blow solution and parts list.
If Nick was a millionare, he would have had his car completed a long time ago, which is a shame, because he has shown an amazing level of dedication to this project going back to a time when a 3.0 turbo was almost unheard of... Its almost as if he should have some credit for his vision going back a few years.
Nick's 968 turbo is the second conversion we have completed this year from 968 to 968 8v turbo.. Unfortunately the previous one was for a race car which lasted a very short time before the performance overtook the drivers ability (it flipped ends and hit the armco going about 100mph backwards during a race), but is due to be reincarnated into another 968 shell in the new year.
Nicks 968 was especially traumatic as the first time it was due to be started was 150 miles away from our workshop... So Simon (our engine builder) and I spent many hours worrying both before D-Day and during the course of the day at the Motec programmers workshop... But once a couple of electrical gremlins had been tracked down, she fired into life and Simon and I could sleep at night again (I dont think Nick, Simon or I slept the night before!)
Nick, remember we are here for you during the tidy up phase and for any hurdles that are yet to be found!
All the best
Jon Mitchell
JMG/9XX
www.9xx.co.uk
12-22-2006, 09:57 PM
#50
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Jon it certainly has been an epic journey and it can only be a bonus that these two 3.2 engines have come out of building my engine. If I had the money and knew what I know now I would have had one as well but I was too far down the road with mine. I can always add the bottom end later anyway
I have to say though that what I created and all my research came from here on rennlist and it is guys like Raj, Rolex, Dfastest and TonyG that inspired me to build what seemed to be the ultimate powerplant for a 968/ 951. Thanks to this board I got an answer to every question I ever had, including matching my Group 0 pistons to my Group 1 block. Even today I still search this board for info on intercoolers and other bits and bobs as nearly everything has been done before. So its nice to know that we can give something new with the 3.2.
Jon, Simon, and I are all enthusiasts and it is only because of that fact that my project got ever got to this stage. Thanks guys I owe you big time
I know you are there to get me through the next phase and I am sure I drive you mad with almost daily phone calls but you always have time for me. The end is in sight though and it should be worth the effort.
I have to say though that what I created and all my research came from here on rennlist and it is guys like Raj, Rolex, Dfastest and TonyG that inspired me to build what seemed to be the ultimate powerplant for a 968/ 951. Thanks to this board I got an answer to every question I ever had, including matching my Group 0 pistons to my Group 1 block. Even today I still search this board for info on intercoolers and other bits and bobs as nearly everything has been done before. So its nice to know that we can give something new with the 3.2.
Jon, Simon, and I are all enthusiasts and it is only because of that fact that my project got ever got to this stage. Thanks guys I owe you big time
I know you are there to get me through the next phase and I am sure I drive you mad with almost daily phone calls but you always have time for me. The end is in sight though and it should be worth the effort.
12-22-2006, 10:09 PM
#51
Originally Posted by Markus951
Hey Nick. I quess you have seen all the 968 turbo pictures but IMO. this is also good solution for IC, if you are worried about high engine temps..
My personal experience with front mounted IC is something like this
I never had any temperature problems (I am talking about traffic jams etc.) on high speeds it wount be an issue anyway's! My intake temps where never over 2-3 degrees over ambient..
My personal experience with front mounted IC is something like this
I never had any temperature problems (I am talking about traffic jams etc.) on high speeds it wount be an issue anyway's! My intake temps where never over 2-3 degrees over ambient..
On the yellow car there are before and after temp sensors on the intercooler. When I got the car the after temp sensor wasn't functioning - something to fix this winter. I will post the results next summer for those who are interested. One thing to note is that the hood is louvered to ram air through the intercooler. Without that modification I'm not sure how much air would go through it. I guess that is why the fans are placed where they are. I did notice that the intercooler wasn't sealed to the hood. I am considering building a seal so that air can't escape around the intercooler. Any comments or suggestions are appreciated.
12-22-2006, 10:18 PM
#53
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by nick_968
Jon it certainly has been an epic journey and it can only be a bonus that these two 3.2 engines have come out of building my engine. If I had the money and knew what I know now I would have had one as well but I was too far down the road with mine. I can always add the bottom end later anyway
I have to say though that what I created and all my research came from here on rennlist and it is guys like Raj, Rolex, Dfastest and TonyG that inspired me to build what seemed to be the ultimate powerplant for a 968/ 951. Thanks to this board I got an answer to every question I ever had, including matching my Group 0 pistons to my Group 1 block. Even today I still search this board for info on intercoolers and other bits and bobs as nearly everything has been done before. So its nice to know that we can give something new with the 3.2.
Jon, Simon, and I are all enthusiasts and it is only because of that fact that my project got ever got to this stage. Thanks guys I owe you big time
I know you are there to get me through the next phase and I am sure I drive you mad with almost daily phone calls but you always have time for me. The end is in sight though and it should be worth the effort.
I have to say though that what I created and all my research came from here on rennlist and it is guys like Raj, Rolex, Dfastest and TonyG that inspired me to build what seemed to be the ultimate powerplant for a 968/ 951. Thanks to this board I got an answer to every question I ever had, including matching my Group 0 pistons to my Group 1 block. Even today I still search this board for info on intercoolers and other bits and bobs as nearly everything has been done before. So its nice to know that we can give something new with the 3.2.
Jon, Simon, and I are all enthusiasts and it is only because of that fact that my project got ever got to this stage. Thanks guys I owe you big time
I know you are there to get me through the next phase and I am sure I drive you mad with almost daily phone calls but you always have time for me. The end is in sight though and it should be worth the effort.
Good luck.
Raj
12-23-2006, 04:26 PM
#54
Instructor
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Bournemouth, South coast, England
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Jon Mitchell did wonders with my 964 turbo and I was considering buying a 993 turbo and letting him loose with that. But now I am seriously considering getting a 944 turbo or 968 and getting him to convert it to 3.0 or 3.2 turbo power.
Have you seen on the PCGB forum, Paul the owner of the first 3.2 turbo is having problems with traction in 5th gear at 3000 rpm with 18 psi of boost. He says it just spins the rear wheels in ANY gear!
Apparently that is also just with a running in map and its not been properly mapped yet! Thats just crazy!
Have you seen on the PCGB forum, Paul the owner of the first 3.2 turbo is having problems with traction in 5th gear at 3000 rpm with 18 psi of boost. He says it just spins the rear wheels in ANY gear!
Apparently that is also just with a running in map and its not been properly mapped yet! Thats just crazy!
12-23-2006, 04:52 PM
#56
Rennlist Member
Definitely time for an LSD and not the stock 40% one either! You guys should contact my mechanic Sean / JET951 who has a line on some excellent lsds. I'm getting the 80% one just like him, this Feb. Very good piece of kit.
Paul also needs some bigger/better rubber. This is a must for that beast and it has to have the KW's as Nick said. Hey it's only money. lol.
Paul also needs some bigger/better rubber. This is a must for that beast and it has to have the KW's as Nick said. Hey it's only money. lol.
12-23-2006, 06:21 PM
#57
Advanced
I can confirm that Paul's car looses traction in any gear once the boost comes in... its dry around here, but temps are close to freezing, I hope that with some good tyres, suspension and dry warm roads, he will not have so much of a problem.
I think that Nick's 968 3.0 turbo is going to also be a blisteringly quick car with traction issues, but I know nick already has KW in the pipeline! (Wise man!)
Nick also has some miles to put on the engine and to get a final map.
Paul's car has a chip that was developed by Klaus Hoffman (of Bosch/Porsche fame) for the 944 turbo cup/S cars in 1985 to 1987 but was rejected by Porsche as it would be a threat to the marketing of other Porsche models... This is the chip we use as the base for our project 944 turbos, It has some very adaptive software but is remarkable that it works so well for running in a 3.2.. But this gives Paul a serious head start over nick even though Paul also needs a final mapping, but Nick is starting from scratch with the Motec, so Nick has yet to enjoy anywhere near the potential of the 3.0 I cant wait to see how it performs.
333pg333 are you Patrick? If so is there any 944 forum I dont bump into you at? How are you finding the 9XX RaceShift, have you had a chance to try it yet? We are working on a 968 version for Nick's 968 and the milder RoadShift version as well. Paul's 3.2 has the 944 turbo 9XX-RoadShift on his 3.2 turbo.
As usual... too much to do, too little time!
I think that Nick's 968 3.0 turbo is going to also be a blisteringly quick car with traction issues, but I know nick already has KW in the pipeline! (Wise man!)
Nick also has some miles to put on the engine and to get a final map.
Paul's car has a chip that was developed by Klaus Hoffman (of Bosch/Porsche fame) for the 944 turbo cup/S cars in 1985 to 1987 but was rejected by Porsche as it would be a threat to the marketing of other Porsche models... This is the chip we use as the base for our project 944 turbos, It has some very adaptive software but is remarkable that it works so well for running in a 3.2.. But this gives Paul a serious head start over nick even though Paul also needs a final mapping, but Nick is starting from scratch with the Motec, so Nick has yet to enjoy anywhere near the potential of the 3.0 I cant wait to see how it performs.
333pg333 are you Patrick? If so is there any 944 forum I dont bump into you at?
How are you finding the 9XX RaceShift, have you had a chance to try it yet? We are working on a 968 version for Nick's 968 and the milder RoadShift version as well. Paul's 3.2 has the 944 turbo 9XX-RoadShift on his 3.2 turbo.As usual... too much to do, too little time!
12-23-2006, 07:26 PM
#58
Rennlist Member
Hi Jon. Yes Patrick here and I've just added the race shift kit to my signature. I did try it although briefly at the track. I spun my #2 rod bearing so I haven't had a chance to really use it for very long. It felt very positive in certain movements though. 2nd-3rd or 4th-3rd were particularly pleasing. I will send the old stuff back to you soon but being X-mas the post offices are chock a block with people sending parcels so I'll wait until all the rush has subsided.
OH and I'd seriously consider the lsd's I mentioned. They are beautiful units and would suit your applications very well.
OH and I'd seriously consider the lsd's I mentioned. They are beautiful units and would suit your applications very well.
12-23-2006, 07:33 PM
#59
Advanced
Hi Patrick,
No rush for the old bits, just enjoy your Christmas!
Email me some details about the LSD's, they sound like the kind of thing we are looking for.
I have not forgotten about your engine prices you asked for a while back, they will be getting emailed through after Christmas once we have nailed down the costs.
No rush for the old bits, just enjoy your Christmas!
Email me some details about the LSD's, they sound like the kind of thing we are looking for.
I have not forgotten about your engine prices you asked for a while back, they will be getting emailed through after Christmas once we have nailed down the costs.
12-24-2006, 01:20 PM
#60
Addict
Lifetime Rennlist
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Lifetime Rennlist
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Originally Posted by indi9xx
I can confirm that Paul's car looses traction in any gear once the boost comes in... its dry around here, but temps are close to freezing, I hope that with some good tyres, suspension and dry warm roads, he will not have so much of a problem. I think that Nick's 968 3.0 turbo is going to also be a blisteringly quick car with traction issues, but I know nick already has KW in the pipeline! (Wise man!). Nick also has some miles to put on the engine and to get a final map.
