MPD47

Actually the car you are refering to was pushing 704whp. On stock internals minus the MLS gasket, before it bent a rod. It was run for MONTHS at the 500+whp range.

500whp with just an MLS gasket and the usual turbo stuff is FINE on an S52

Trucho-951

What really seems to be needed here is a clear description of your intended use of this “super-car”.

If it is going to be a street car, then well, remember, the Maximum Speed Limit on most U.S. highways is 70 MPH, so going HP crazy or suspension crazy does not make much sense.

If the intent is illegal street racing, then go for the highest HP car, because suspension mods won’t really be necessary unless it also involves zig-zagging in and out of traffic.

If the car is meant to be tracked, then go for the lighter of these two German cars and take the money that is currently budgeted for additional mods and instead spend it in on driver training (racing classes).

If it is intended on being a boulevard cruiser, then why not get the prettiest one, oh yeah, with plenty of shinny stuff under the hood.

RennenFlamme

Well said. I loved driving an e36 328i but i doubt it would feel the same with FI, it wouldn't feel very BMW. Just a side question, but the 951 is reliable even when you guys run 20+ psi? This is good news for me, even though i don't think I'll want to run much more than 18 even on a good tune..

RogueM3

As far as I knew, he was running essentially a Stage 2 kit, and had the tuning from AA for their stage 2 kit...What more is there to know? What all is so different between their kit and his (I know he has a different turbo and a different ebay intercooler..)

No, actually, but thanks. The car I was referring to wasnt the M52 that put out 704whp (Ulysses' 2.8), but instead Mike Radowski's S52 (3.2 motor that is entirely different than the 2.8).

The S52 and M52 are different motors with different rods, crank, stroke, compression, etc. Furthermore, the M52 has more meat between the cylinders, which means more surface area with which the HG can connect. (.87 vs. .85)

Ulysses' 2.8 wasnt really run for months at the 635rwhp that he was claiming, as much of that time was downtime where the car wouldnt be driven for atleast a month at a time (like when he was waiting for the PPF manifolds, TB, etc) Those numbers were also on 110 race gas...so its not exactly a daily-driveable setup, if it is it would cost major $$ for gas alone.

There hasnt been anyone to test the limits of the S52 with a .140 HG as of yet. Someone (Radowski) did bend a rod, as I mentioned, in their S52 running 23psi on methanol, but that was with the stock HG.

Thanks again to everyone else for all of the comments...please keep them coming..the more the merrier.

MPD47

Bah, so I got them confused, so sue me.

Fishey

About 4-6psi of boost...

Also, his turbo is a pretty mean 60-1... Also his intercooler is sweet! $150 and it works great!

jimbo1111

Both cars are very capable. If you choose the 951 route your problem will be finding a good example.(not many around) I have met George from ICS and Dyno my car at his shop. He told me It would cost 40k to do a proper turbo upgrade to the M3. Including the price of the car. I have spent at least 15k in upgrades on my 951. I have to say that I'm very pleased with it now but I started with a very good example with 49k miles. There not exactly very cheap to modd or maintain if they are falling apart. The truth is they need work to get them reliable at 400+ whp. Your best bet is to find one thats ready. I have seen some nice one's for around 15 to 18k. Most are high mileage beaters that have bin restored. Good ones with low mileage are really hard to find and if you do find one. They demand a premium.

Duke

Hmm this is hard decisions... Your M3 is obviously a very sweet car and a turbo kit would really make it complete. On a 951 you would want at least $10 in parts before you're satisfied (IMHO).

I'm currently at about $25k+ in parts any my 951 doesn't even roll without assistance

But if you get the 951, what are your goals? If you keep the M3, I suppose it's not as important to have the 951 in mint condition?

Your current M3 seems like a beautiful street/autox/track/fun combo. Getting a 951 and turning it into the same doesn't make sense?

rage2

You're not the only one that tracks your 951 . If you read my old posts, you'll realize that my 951 spent more time at the track than on the street, even though I drove the car daily to work. I've driven only 50-80 laps in various E36 M3's, and I can say even with that short amount of time I find the M3 to be a better track car for me.

The 951, setup properly, is a menace on that track that not many cars can touch. All I'm saying is, I personally prefer a properly setup E36 M3 at the track, it inspires much more confidence, and confidence gives you consistency, and more room to work with on the track when having some fun with other cars. At any rate, both cars with stupid power and sorted out suspension, it comes down to the driver for laptimes more than anything.

RogueM3

Yeah, I thought it would be fun to give you a hard time...as soon as you get the S38 build back underway, you need to post pics in the FI section.
Thats true..my M3 is already setup just the way I want it to be, whereas the 951 would involve me starting from scratch. Maybe thats part of my interest in another car, though. Although its not terribly financially wise, it would be alot of fun and probably involve a few headaches taking in a new "project" car.
[QUOTE=jimbo1111]The truth is they need work to get them reliable at 400+ whp. Your best bet is to find one thats ready. I have seen some nice one's for around 15 to 18k. Most are high mileage beaters that have bin restored. Good ones with low mileage are really hard to find and if you do find one. They demand a premium.[/QUOTE}
Im not terribly interested in finding an absolute MINT example, in fact that would allow me to not be so terribly **** about it (as I am about the M3)...however, I would want to find the best compromise between price,
condition, and pre-existing mods.
Exactly. I would want it to be a good condition car...and a solidly running car, but it wouldnt need to be a total garage queen, sunny-day-only car.
Part of my desire for a 951 is that, like most of you, I love modifying and playing with cars. The 951 would be an additional toy, and could also serve as daily driver (replacing the Ford Contour thats currently filling that position )

The 951 wouldnt be to have a track toy, but it would be to have an all-around car that would be fun to modify, yet that wouldnt need to be in the garage on anything but the sunniest of days (like the M3 is..sort of)

Where I stand now is that the M3 would be sweet with 400whp (IMO), but it would still just be 1 toy. The 951 would be an added toy, and although I dont have an abundance of money, I love researching and spending my hard-earned money on mods that I can appreciate and feel.

Where I worry a little is that the M3 will always have the 250whp NA that I am making now, while the 951 might easily surpass it in power (300whp+) and make me want to drive it more...

I am loving the opinions thus far...Its good to get other's opinions on the matter. Please keep them coming.

MPD47

Bit short on funds right now. Hoping to have the engine together sometime spring/summer '07. Still need a chassis for it though. I dont own anything I'd want to put it in.

RogueM3

coughE30cough

Whats the current status of your 951? I remember you had had some overheating and HG issues...(I am pretty sure it was after your road trips this summer)

Duke

Nah a turboed 6-cyl in a E30 feels soooooo old and "done"
You beemer guys need to figure something new out to put those crazy engines in!!

But I suppose every other chassi is too expensive for most.

Personally I find the idea of a turbocharged 130i pretty sweet

SoloRacer

Ok, how about a turbo charged Isetta. Now that would be a rush.

George D

The new 335 twin turbo from BMW is going to be a killer engine. BMW makes one of the best inline six engines and they won't spare much in this new turbo powerplant. You can bet that the suspension, brakes, and drivetrain will be stout and capable of much more power.

This is probably going to be one of their best selling cars for the money. With a little tuning this beast will keep the new V8 M3 in check.

This is the first new product from BMW that I'm actually excited about. Euro delivery?! We'll see after a romp when one hits town.

George