mortymower

GET BOTH!!!!!! just kidding, (but seriously)

I personaly love the 951's becaus eof their handling and mod capabilities; However the modded M3 would probably be more reliable if nothing else because its at least five years newer, but amny other reasons to. Do you have another car to drive or is this your source of transport, if you have somehting eles, 951 all the way, if not little more difficult. Just my 2 cents

George D

I'll chime in here, as I've owned both cars. I had a 89 951 back in the early 90's that was mildly modded to product 330 wheel hp. We had our second child, and I decided to sell it and purchase a 97 M3 sedan. That sedan did everything I wanted it to, but I missed the turbo.

I then purchased a LS400 for a daily driver, and used the M3 for DE/weekend stuff. Missed the turbo, and sold the M3 and purchased an EVO. I modded this thing to about 380wheel hp. Awesome car, but missed the 951. Those EVO's can be fun, but they are not a high end car like the 951.

I sold the EVO and got more into the offroading stuff that I've always done. Missed that damn 951. It was like that girlfriend that you never forget. So, I purchased another 89 951 that was fairly modded and did more to it. It now has extensive mods and the dyno run showed 430wheel hp. This car is awesome. I no longer lust for anything else. This car is setup for DE. It has a rollbar, Recaro, killer stereo, big reds, suspension upgrades, wheel upgrades, and other stuff to make it mine.

I'd get a 951 and keep your M3 till you decide that the 951 is all you really need for a sports car.

George

hinch951

1025whp E36 anyone? lol Killer Bee

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wr7rkMIjByk&eurl=

jyoon

for 12k, i'd much rather purchase a decent 951 for around 7-8k and putting on a stage 3 kit for around 4k or so. it's a much better investment. like you said, you could always sell the 951 with or without the stage 3 kit and get a reasonable amount of your money back. put 12k into your turbo m3 and your stuck.

RogueM3

Thanks for all of the comments guys...its definitely helpful to have everyone's personal experience or opinion on the matter.

For now, I am looking at a '95 325 Sedan with a complete M3 transplant (from the motor to the subframes; essentially only the shell is 325, the rest is M3) The car is capable in its current state of 563whp on a GT35R turbo at ~22psi. The car has a full fuel system, built motor with h-beam rods, dished low-comp pistons, ported and flowed head, the list goes on and on.

The problem is the HG is blown on this car. If I go through with the purchase, I will buy a pyramid ringed HG, replace it and perhaps go with a Blow-Thru HFM as opposed to the Draw-Thru that is currently in place.

This will allow me a car I am familiar with, at a GREAT price, which will make TONS of power and because of my contacts in the BMW industry, wont be terribly expensive to fix should something go wrong.

It was 977 WHP when SAE corrected, though even that is to be debated (MANY people have claimed their dyno reads impossibly high for given setups). I wouldnt leave my car in their lot (ICS Performance) for more than a day for fear they would cannabalize it or break something on it.

RolexNJ

Well, my two cents? Keep the bimmer and try the 951, but dont heavily mod it. See if you like it or not. But regarding that quote above, you seem to seek some serious. One, I hope to God you have some really great drving skills if you decided to push 563 RWHP. Two, be careful, for I know the roads very well where you live, and the are very blind around a corner and are very twisty. I'm not here to preach my fellow New Jersian, but just be careful. I read about it all the time. People talking about 400, 500, 600 RWHP; whether it is a 951, 997TT, or whatever. What concerns me most is that people will get their testostrone going and get above their heads in these high power BHP cars. So just be careful, but enjoy what ever you do.

Mike S

Well, having just bought a 2004 M3 to replace my 951 (for sale BTW), I have to say the M3 is a great car. It does everything right. The M3 has tight suspension, traction control, launch control, an 8,000RPM redline that makes the hair on the back of my neck stand up. It's an intoxicating car to drive. My 944 was faster on the top end with around 70HP more, but the M3 is a much better all around car for me (and it's under warranty).

MPD47

We certainly dont share the same opinion on ICS.

RogueM3

Mike, the more I hear about them, the worse they come off looking. Granted, I am talking about members who have had troubles with ICS, so they would have an axe to grind, but still the list is LONG:

-Josh Aaron (member "josh")
-Matt ("DefactoM6")
-Sean Kim ("bimmerpwr"--SC Built S54)
-Drew ("M3Crazy")

The list goes on and on including poor work performed, to flat-out lies being told to customers....

I have no experience with them..but hearing these guys stories makes for a bad taste in my mouth.

MPD47

I've heard some of the horror stories, but I also know Junior and he seems to be a stand up guy. Time will tell I suppose.

Wasnt there also a LONG post recently from Sean about how he held no blame with ICS or AA?

RogueM3

Its funny that Junior seems to be ICS' saving grace...everyone who has bad stories about ICS usually has a quality/positive story to tell about Junior and his tuning.

Sean did sort of let ICS off the hook in a recent thread, but myself along with other members he has talked to agree that it was just him taking the high-road as he had already dealt with all of the issues, and didnt want to rehash the issues and crap he had to go through with ICS.

hosrom_951

That's for the M3? if so, you are missing out big time.

You can get 480whp @ 17psi, pump fuel, STOCK engine (stock head, block and all internals), but with a turbocharger kit for a M52 2.8L engine IIRC.

MPD47

hosrom, Rogue knows what he's doing, the info is quite available on other forums as to what the BMW engines are capable of.

RogueM3

You have remembered incorrectly.

There is absolutely NO way you can run 17psi on a stock HG and motor, be it S52, S50 (M3) or M52, M50 (328 and 325). Running 17psi with a .120 Cometic HG is still somewhat risky in my opinion, and that is with the compression ratio having been dropped from 10.5:1 to 8.9:1 (via the thicker HG).

Regardless of this, the S50/S52 rods become an issue over and above 18psi...

All of this said, if you were able to push 17psi on a stock motor, I would hope you would make WAY more power than 480whp. 17psi on a 8.9:1 S50/S52 motor should yield ~480-490whp...with the greater compression ratio, I would expect in excess of 500whp.
Thanks Mike. I meant to mention it earlier, but your "winter project" (aka. "Taking the whole damn car apart..." ) is very sweet. Im following your thread pretty intently.

RogueM3

For giggles, I thought I would update this thread. I decided that turbocharging my M3 was out of the question as its already done the right way NA, and I wouldnt be gaining any added value on the car's worth with the turbo kit.

Instead I decided to go with a a 332 (325 with full M3 swap including motor, suspension, brakes, body kit, etc) that was already turbocharged but was running on the ragged edge and that had already blown a HG (I picked it up with the blown HG on 2/17/07).

Today after finishing a NUMBER of upgrades and after installing the AEM standalone computer, the car threw down a VERY conservative 535whp and 545wtq @ 22psi!

Graph:


All of this said, I still am passively looking for the perfect 951