toddk911

Is that a missprint?? I know diesel's have to run SUPER compression levels for combusiton, but 1,600 BAR???

See Below:

Audi is once again one step ahead of the opposition: The inventor of ‘TDI’ will become the world’s first automobile manufacturer to fight for overall victory with a diesel engine at the famous 24 Hours of Le Mans. The all-new Audi R10, which was unveiled in Paris, is powered by a totally new 5.5-litre, twelve-cylinder bi-turbo TDI engine, which is extremely quiet and economical.

The Le Mans Prototype, with over 650 hp and more than 1,100 Newton metres torque, significantly exceeds the power produced by the majority of previous Audi racing cars – including that of its victorious R8 predecessor. Audi ventures into previously unexplored diesel-engine terrain with the V12 power plant manufactured completely from aluminium. As with the TFSI technology, which triumphed initially at Le Mans before being adopted for mass-production, Audi customers should benefit once again from the lessons learnt in motorsport.

The R10 prototype’s V12 power unit, which is equipped with two diesel particle filters, is hardly recognisable as a diesel thanks to the engine’s smooth running nature. The TDI engine’s specialities presented the Audi Sport engineers with a whole list of challenges. The injection pressure easily exceeds the 1,600 bar achieved in production cars. The usable power band lies between 3,000 and 5,000 revs per minute – an unusually low rev range for a racing engine. The driver must change gear in the R10 far less often than in the R8 because of the TDI engine’s favourable torque curve.

The enormous torque of over 1,100 Newton metres does not only make extreme demands of the R10 transmission system – even the latest generation of engine dynamometers at Audi Sport had to be re-equipped with special gearboxes capable of withstanding the unusual forces.

Additionally, radical changes to the chassis were also necessary. The Audi R10 has a significantly longer wheel base than the R8. The overly wide front tyres are, up until now, unique for a Le Mans Prototype. New technologies were also implemented during the development of the carbon-fibre monocoque. Chassis, engine and gearbox form an extremely rigid, fully stressed unit.

After several months of testing the R10 made its competition debut in 2006 Sebring 12 Hours race. After a one-two in qualifying the two Audis took a comfortable lead in the opening hours of the race. One car was forced to retire with overheating problems in the blistering Florida heat. The cooling system of the second car was regularly checked and cleaned to make sure it finished. A faultless run of the very experienced drivers was more than sufficient to claim the R10's maiden victory; the first major sportscar victory for a diesel engined car.

General specifications
Record last updated 03 / 20 / 2006
Country of origin Germany
Year of introduction 2006
Numbers built N/A
Body design N/A
Weight 925 kilo / 2039.3 lbs
Drivetrain
Engine TDI 90º V 12
Engine Location Mid , longitudinally mounted
Displacement 5.500 liter / 335.6 cu in
Valvetrain 4 valves / cylinder, DOHC
Fuel feed Direct Fuel Injection
Aspiration Twin Garrett Turbos
Gearbox X-Trac 5 speed Sequential
Drive Rear wheel drive
Performance figures
Power 650 bhp / 485 KW
Torque 1100 Nm / 811 ft lbs
BHP/Liter 118 bhp / liter
Power to weight ratio 0.7 bhp / kg
Top Speed N/A
0-60 mph Acceleration N/A

DanG

injection pressure = fuel pressure, those numbers are right on for a direct injection diesel.

M758

Yep,
remember you are forcing fuel into the combustion chamber on a 15:1 or 19:1 (some super high compression ratio) turbo motor. Most cars inject fuel into the intake track just before the combustion chamber and can do it at a much lower pressure.

Imo000

Yes that’s right. Diesel fuel injector pressure is usually around 3500lb. The latest TDIs have dropped the cylinder CR to around 19:1 the pre TDI diesels were 21:1 CR.
Also the torque number is a bit deceiving, it’s in Newtown meters and not in ft / lb.

toddk911

Oh ok.

Thought that was in reference to compression or total head pressure.

Would love to know what kind of boost they are running.

toddk911

So they would need some BIG injectors?????

toddk911

"Torque 1100 Nm / 811 ft lbs "

So where would the injecotors be in relation to the cylinder???

Imo000

VW TDIs like my daily driver run stock over 20 psi of boost. The injectors are usually installed like a spark plug on a gasoline engine, directly into the combustion chanber. There are gasoline engines now that have Direct Injection too. I beleive BMW has them.

f1rocks

The TDI high injection pressure is accomplished using lobes on the camshaft to inject. They are super agressive ramp angles and make an NHRA cam look mild. Due to the potential high friction, VW/Audi requires specific oil that you can't just buy off the shelf....gotta love VW 505.01 oil

Zero10

mercedes is selling a gasoline-direct-injection engine as well. Very efficient.

f1rocks, for the pump duse TDI's you are correct. They have cam-driven unit injectors. The audi diesels are all common rail, and work rather like a gasoline FI engine. The old VE TDI's used an injection pump. Alas, mine is a PD.

1600bar is nothing, I've seen diesels that run at as much as 3500bar injection pressure.
Peak cylinder pressures get very high as well, probably 3-4x those of a gas engine. It's amazing the pressures that these engines see.

Imo000

Not necessarily the case. What VW recommends and what you can use are two different things. I use regular diesel engine approved engine oil (meets the VW spec certification) in my ’00 Jetta TDI. The oil comes in a 5 gal. pail and costs ($30 cdn/ $20usd). Has been using it for over 60K miles (100K km), with the recommended 9275 mile (15000km) oil change interval and the engine has no problems with that. No sludge build up and no frictional issues either. It is a little on the thick side when the temps drop but never had an issue starting it even in the coldest of the winter nights.

Zero10

Imo000, you have a VE TDI, not a PD.
Different beasts. If you use a CI (Or is it CI-4?...) certified oil I have no doubts that you can log hundreds of thousands of miles with a very low incidence rate.

There are a few people on TDIClub trying to show that 505.01 is a load of bull, and all of them are either failing, or are not far enough into their tests to have conclusive results.

FSAEracer03

Think of where your spark plugs are and you're on the right track

In reference to the pressures seen at the direct injection nozzles... not only can the c.r. be 20:1, it can effectively be far more than double that with boost pressure.

Basically, at 20psi, a 20:1 c.r. motor is effectively 47.6:1 c.r. That equates to 700psi or so.

By the way, the R10 won it's debut race. I love the Audi engineers who thought of this idea. Think outside the (gasoline) box.

Imo000

Ok, I see. Point well taken. I do look at the TDIClub forum but not too often. I'm keeping my TDI stock so I only visit that site every now and then. I have 174K on my '00 TDI and still running excellent. The timing belt was changed by the PO 60K ago. However the original clutch is still holding up and get 51 mpg.

Zero10

60k ago, did he use the 100k mile kit with water pump?

I as well am pleased by the Audi engineers on this one. It's really nice to see a diesel out there, and even nicer to see it win!