hally

from the Redline.com.au website, not very independant but interesting wrt base stocks:

ARE ALL SYNTHETICS THE SAME QUALITY?
Red Line Synthetic Oil Corp. is one of the unique, rare manufacturers using
significant amounts of state-of-the-art, Poly-ol-ester base-stocks. “Base stock” is
an oil industry term for the chemical core of any lubricant. Poly-ol-esters are the
ultimate base-stocks because they are the only types that withstand the tremendous
heat and stress, like those present in the hot sections of modern jet engines.
In the battle for profits, other companies cut corners in their synthetic product by
making their product almost entirely poly-alpha-ole-fin based. This type of synthetic
base stock is cheaper and cannot withstand the temperature like that of Poly-ol-ester
base stock, nor equal Poly-ol-ester base stock quality. This is why Red Line
outperforms other minerals and synthetics.
Base stock used by manufacturers include:
Source Name Description
a. (Synthetic) Poly ol ester (POE) Recognised as the #1 basestock in
the world. Red Line is the only
company in the world that sells
such a high quality based oil to
the automotive market.
b. (Synthetic) Di ester
c. (Synthetic) Poly alpha olefin (PAO)
d. (Synthetic) Poly ester
e. (Synthetic) Poly alkaline Glycol (PAG)
f. (Petroleum) Mineral Oil - Hydrocracked
g. (Petroleum) Mineral Oil – Plain
Most brands that use significant amounts of synthetic basestocks will openly name
which synthetic they use as the more expensive the basestock used to make the oil,
the more expensive the end product, however the better the end user results are.

Is Red Line as good as Mobil 1?
Ans: Better! Mobil 1, Amsoil and most other synthetics oils are made from diester or
poly-alpha-olefin (PAO esters). They may be better than mineral oil but Red Line’s
polyolester is the best stock known to man in oil technology, hence the results are
with it.

daigo

Couple of things. I know one of the Motul oils is made from POE. I don't remember the number but it is used by most of the top race teams globaly. I've also heard but can't confirm that there is a drastic difference in the Mobil 1 available in the US as to ROW. Apparently even the oil sold here in Canada in quite different. I'd be interested in hearing how and why.

ZPmadA

How cold is it when you take your 951 out? the owner's manual says 20w50 is good at 17F to 110F / -20C to 40C or something like that. I use Valvoline racing 20W50 all year but don't take my car out much during the winter. Am I fine driving with 20w50 when its 40F out? I don't drive when its much colder than that because there could be ice on the road. The owners manual says I'm good with 20w50 until is 17F out, but the owners manual also states to change the oil every what 7,500 miles?

turbinek

How often do you change the oil?

Heaving water in the oil is a normal process (heating up cooling down et voila there is condensation the source of water in the oil). The engine get's ride of it by heatin up at temperuteres above 80 degrees celcius for at least half an hour.

turbinek

My 951 is a car driven if a rid is needed (spare time mainly at weekend for shopping or so..). There are also some short trips.
Temperature may get as low as 23 till 35 and some days it was even 14 degrees! And as the recent past tells: be prepared for more low temp to come!

ENGINEERMAN

Most engine wear occurs during the first minute of operation after an extended period of inoperation. The oil drains away from the wearing surfaces (piston rings, cylinder walls, bearings) and oil must be present for a protective oil film.

The problem with a 20W-50 oil in cold weather is that is has the consistency of honey... it doesn't flow quickly! Once it warms up it's fine but during those critical first moments you have issues with metal on metal contact.

You can address this issue by a) using an oil that thickens less and this one area where synthetics stand out and b) by using oils that have higher amounts of sulfated ash and zinc content (some have none).

In summary if you are going to start your car when it is cold (especially if it is infrequently) then a dino based 20W-50 is not a good idea.

Good Luck!

Tom

ehall

I live in Florida. Hell if they made 30W100 grade oil...I could use it.

ps...relative humidity must have a noticeable effect on the amount of water build up that is seen in the oil. In the SE U.S. it is pretty hot, and VERY humid, so our issues with oil may be slightly different than those at altitude, or in the deserts. <<<just speculation on my part.

Charlie944

Ehall, these guys have almost that high of a viscosity. Check out: http://www.penrite.com.au/nextpage.p...roduct_hpr.php
under HPR40 and HPR 50.

Penrite if you remember from the thread not to long ago that tested many oils using the Timken Bearing load test came out on top even better than Royal Purple. This was the Synthetic 5w-60, and it is at in the link above under "Synthetic 5". They are an Australian company.

Zero10

But, the Timken Bearing load test is a good test for wheel bearing grease, not engine oils, since it doesn't accurately represent the conditions inside of an engine.
Just a side note

code5coupe

I bought some of this not long ago....paid almost $9/qt for it and have heard of others paying up to $14/qt at other dealers.
It BETTER be good stuff....

....and Amsoil is almost a scam.

Larry

EJ

Sorry, You can't tell me Amsoil is a scam. I've had three vehicles run over 200,000 miles on the oil at 25,000 mile drain intervals( change the filters at 5,000 mile intervals). The Toyota Corolla I had went well over 300,000 miles and is still going for the guy I sold it to. No engine problems on any of the vehicles.

20/50 racing in the winter, 60 racing in the summer. I do not run 25,000 mile change intervals in the 951, but I will go to 6,000 miles depending on driving conditions.

I use it in the tranny too.

CO951

I bought my '89 951 with 100k miles last summer and did my 1st DE in it with dino oil. I had to add about 1/2 qt for the two days. I changed to Mobile 1 and have only added about 1/2 qt total for my next 3 DEs. I've been convinced for a long time that synthetic is the way to go. However, I don't believe that Mobile 1 is the best. I've used Castrol Syntec 5w-50 for many years in several vehicles for temps of -40F to 110F and never had any problems. Just my 2 cents.

DFASTEST951

Ok, I have an engine built by one of the best builders out there. It has Mobil 15w-50. I always let it warm up before I take it out of the garage. It gets, up to 123 degrees and I drive it hard. Regularly going over 150mph. I have only 15,000 miles on the car. I change oil every 500 to 1000 miles. Due to the heat out here and how I get on it. Guess what? I have a small oil pan leak. ***** F*&^A! I'm changing oils. I've had great advise from some of you, especially ehall. I'm going to Royal Purple 51. Maybe AGIP in the future. I'll let you know if the leak stops. That will be proof for me if it does. By the way, there is an oil filter thread here. I'd like to hear what oil filters you guys use. I am using a Porsche 928 oil filter now and would like to know if any of you besides 420whp are using CM Racing oil filters or if you know about them. Look forward to hearing from you guys there.

Charlie944

Currently, I have a 928 Mahle filter on the turbo and a Amsoil Ea36 (new version of the old SDF filters) on the N/A which are highly efficient at trapping 8 microns and still providing execllent flow. For oil I am running Amsoil HP 10w-40 in the N/A but will switch to the Series 2000 20w-50 here for the summer. I do utilize a 20,000mile drain interval on that car. For the turbo I ran Kendall GT-1 while the rings were seating, and now I have Penn Grade 1 Racing 20w-50 (Brad Penn oil) semi-synthetic for the next 1000 miles. After that I plan on switching to a full synthetic especially since it is a oil-cooled only turbocharger. I will more than likely stick with Amsoil because I get a discount, but I am always eager to learn about different oils; Royal Purple, Agip, and Penrite.

UK952

Ah yes the right hand drive cars have the model number 952 (possibly all 944's not just turbos), but the 250BHP cars also have an engine code 052,
My handbook says 952 052 for model number descrition and 052 for engine number. I believe 051 was a 220bhp engine. I dont have any porsche related data to prove it though.
Tony