Mobil 1 vs Castrol full synthetic ?
02-27-2006, 02:28 AM
#76
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Originally Posted by Turby
Redline 20-50
You'd better hope they have that in prison.
It will be easier on your *** after repeated, high speed thrusting you f'in thief!!!
02-27-2006, 04:08 PM
#77
Rest In Peace Jaak
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From Oil Myth Busters .... LINKY HERE
Jaak
*****************************************
Which Oil to Use
Detergent Oil
Virtually all modern multi-weight oils are detergent oils. Detergent oil, cleans the soot of the internal engine parts and suspends the soot particles in the oil. The particles are too small to be trapped by the oil filter and stay in the oil until you change it. These particles are what makes the oil turn darker. These tiny particles do not harm your engine. When the oil becomes saturated with soot particles and is unable to suspend any more, the particles remain on the engine parts. Fortunately, with the current oil change intervals the oil is changed long before the oil is saturated.
Non-detergent oil, such as SAE 30, is not used in modern passenger vehicle engines. It is still used in some gasoline engines such as lawnmowers.
Oil Viscosity
The viscosity of multi-weight motor oil is specified using two numbers. The first number is the viscosity when the oil is cold. This is followed by the letter W (which stands for winter, not weight), which is followed by the number that indicates the viscosity when the oil is at operating temperature. The higher the number the thicker the oil.
Viscosity Modifiers
In order to protect an engine at start time, the oil needs to be thinner when cold so it flows freely. Viscosity modifiers are added to the base stock to make the oil flow better when cold, without making the oil too thin when hot.
Climate Considerations
Owner's manuals and service manuals will specify the acceptable oil to use at various temperatures. In warm climates, 10W30 is usually an acceptable alternative to the preferred 5W30 and may be used without measurable adverse effects. In the olden days, before multi-weight oils, it was common to have a winter oil and a summer oil. This is no longer necessary, but if you normally use 10W30 because you live in a warm climate then be sure to switch to 5W30 if you plan on using the vehicle in very cold weather.
5W30 versus 10W30
Virtually all new passenger vehicles sold in the U.S. use either 5W30 or 10W30 oil. The difference between the two is that the 5W30 flows better when cold, so if you live in a cold climate or operate your vehicle in a cold climate during the winter months, you should use 5W30 if it is the preferred oil for your vehicle. If you live in a sub-tropical climate and don't operate your vehicle in cold climates, then 10W30 is acceptable as long as the manufacturer specifies that it is permissible to use it.
Is there a disadvantage to using an oil that flows better when cold, i.e. 5W30 versus 10W30?
Sometimes, but usually not. The crux of the issue is this: the bigger the difference between the cold oil viscosity and the hot oil viscosity, the more the volume of viscosity modifiers and the less the volume of base stock. If you are good about following the manufacturer's recommended oil change interval then stick with the 5W30 if that is the preferred oil for your vehicle, even if 10W30 is acceptable in warmer climates. Older cars may specify 10W30 only. This is because they need a little more viscosity when cold to keep a protective film on the cylinder walls. There have been instances where the larger amount of viscosity modifiers that are present in 5W30 have broken down due to excessive heat and have left carbon deposits on the valves, but this is extremely rare. The proper fix would be to reduce the excessive heat, but the workaround was to use an oil with less viscosity modifiers.
Why do many oil change places, even dealerships, use 10W30 instead of 5W30, even when 5W30 is preferred?
According to www.cartalk.com (see link in the references section), as well as many mechanics who have posted on usenet, 10W30 is the closest thing to a one size fits all oil. Many older vehicles need 10W30, and most newer vehicles are okay with it in warmer climates. Since many garages don't want to have multiple tanks of bulk oil they choose to carry only 10W30. The advice that Tom & Ray give is correct, 'it would not be a disaster if you used 10W30, but given a choice, go with the manufacturer's recommendation and use the 5W30.'
Thicker is Better Myth
The reason that oil viscosities have gotten thinner is because bearing clearances have become smaller. Using thicker oils will interfere with oil flow and the oil pressure will increase. In a worn engine it may be okay to increase the viscosity of the oil because the bearing clearances have become larger.
Synthetic Oil
Advantages of Synthetic
Synthetic oil was originally developed for high performance racing engines. Mobil tried to popularize synthetic oil for passenger vehicles back in the early 1970's. At the time, Mobil was promoting 20K or 25K oil changes with synthetic, but they soon backed down from this. Synthetic oil is a good choice if you have a vehicle with a high performance engine (in fact synthetic is required for many of these engines). It is also a good choice if your vehicle is operated in extremely cold climates. It has higher resistance to breakdown caused by heat and it flows better in extreme cold. Unfortunately for the synthetic oil industry there is virtually no advantage to using synthetic oil in a non-high performance engine that is operated in moderate climates. You probably could go a bit longer between oil changes with a synthetic, i.e. following the normal service schedule even if you fall into the severe service category, but I wouldn't advise this. In short, synthetic may give you the peace of mind of knowing that you are using an oil that is far better than necessary for your vehicle, but it won't reduce wear or extend the life of the engine. The mistake some people make it to wrongly extrapolate these benefits onto normal engines operated in mild climates, with the ultimate lack of any knowledge being manifested with statements such as "synthetics provide 'Peace of Mind,' or 'Cheap Insurance,'" or other such nonsense.
Extended Change Intervals
Most manufacturers of synthetic oil advise users to not exceed the manufacturer's recommended oil change interval. Part of this is self interest (they don't want to be liable for any damage) but the real reason is that synthetic oil, while it does have certain advantages, still becomes contaminated.
Be extremely wary of synthetic oil companies that offer to pay for your repairs if it is determined that their oil and their extended change interval recommendation caused the problem. Think for a moment of the incredible hassle you would have to go through to prove responsibility for an engine problem. Who would pay your legal bills? Who would pay for replacement transportation during the battle? The more bizarre the warranty the poorer the product is a good rule of thumb.
API Certification, Phosphorus & ZDDP
Never use a non-API certified synthetic oil (there are many of these on the market). The problem with the non-API certified synthetics is that they contain too much phosphorus (in the form of the additive ZDDP (Zinc Dialkyl Dithiophosphates)). The API has limited the amount of phosphorus because phosphorus shortens the life of the catalytic converter. These oils are fine for snowmobiles, motorcycles, and older cars that don't have a catalytic converter, and the extra ZDDP does provide additional wear protection. Unfortunately, the marketers of some the non-certified oils do not explicitly and honestly state the reason for the lack of API certification. You can check the status of API certification on the API web site. Be certain to go not just by the manufacturer name but by the actual product as well. This is because a manufacturer will sometimes have both certified and non-certified products. Suffice it to say that Mobil 1, Royal Purple, Castrol, & Havoline all make synthetic oils that are API certified and that can be purchased at auto parts stores and other retail outlets. Amsoil has one product line, XL-7500 that is API certified, but it's other lines contain too much ZDDP to be certified and should not be used in vehicles with catalytic converters.
Amsoil
Amsoil actually makes some very good products. The negative image of Amsoil is due to their distribution method (MLM) and their marketing approach. If Amsoil products were competitively priced with Mobil 1 and other synthetics, and if I could buy them in a store, I would not hesitate to use their XL-7500 synthetic as opposed to Mobil 1. What upsets me about Amsoil is that they didn't disclose until recently (and then it was by accident) the real reason that their oils (except for XL-7500) are not API certified. In the past they came up with all sorts of bizarre excuses about the reason for their lack of API certification and this greatly contributed to the distrust that people have of the company.
Jaak
*****************************************
Which Oil to Use
Detergent Oil
Virtually all modern multi-weight oils are detergent oils. Detergent oil, cleans the soot of the internal engine parts and suspends the soot particles in the oil. The particles are too small to be trapped by the oil filter and stay in the oil until you change it. These particles are what makes the oil turn darker. These tiny particles do not harm your engine. When the oil becomes saturated with soot particles and is unable to suspend any more, the particles remain on the engine parts. Fortunately, with the current oil change intervals the oil is changed long before the oil is saturated.
Non-detergent oil, such as SAE 30, is not used in modern passenger vehicle engines. It is still used in some gasoline engines such as lawnmowers.
Oil Viscosity
The viscosity of multi-weight motor oil is specified using two numbers. The first number is the viscosity when the oil is cold. This is followed by the letter W (which stands for winter, not weight), which is followed by the number that indicates the viscosity when the oil is at operating temperature. The higher the number the thicker the oil.
Viscosity Modifiers
In order to protect an engine at start time, the oil needs to be thinner when cold so it flows freely. Viscosity modifiers are added to the base stock to make the oil flow better when cold, without making the oil too thin when hot.
Climate Considerations
Owner's manuals and service manuals will specify the acceptable oil to use at various temperatures. In warm climates, 10W30 is usually an acceptable alternative to the preferred 5W30 and may be used without measurable adverse effects. In the olden days, before multi-weight oils, it was common to have a winter oil and a summer oil. This is no longer necessary, but if you normally use 10W30 because you live in a warm climate then be sure to switch to 5W30 if you plan on using the vehicle in very cold weather.
5W30 versus 10W30
Virtually all new passenger vehicles sold in the U.S. use either 5W30 or 10W30 oil. The difference between the two is that the 5W30 flows better when cold, so if you live in a cold climate or operate your vehicle in a cold climate during the winter months, you should use 5W30 if it is the preferred oil for your vehicle. If you live in a sub-tropical climate and don't operate your vehicle in cold climates, then 10W30 is acceptable as long as the manufacturer specifies that it is permissible to use it.
Is there a disadvantage to using an oil that flows better when cold, i.e. 5W30 versus 10W30?
Sometimes, but usually not. The crux of the issue is this: the bigger the difference between the cold oil viscosity and the hot oil viscosity, the more the volume of viscosity modifiers and the less the volume of base stock. If you are good about following the manufacturer's recommended oil change interval then stick with the 5W30 if that is the preferred oil for your vehicle, even if 10W30 is acceptable in warmer climates. Older cars may specify 10W30 only. This is because they need a little more viscosity when cold to keep a protective film on the cylinder walls. There have been instances where the larger amount of viscosity modifiers that are present in 5W30 have broken down due to excessive heat and have left carbon deposits on the valves, but this is extremely rare. The proper fix would be to reduce the excessive heat, but the workaround was to use an oil with less viscosity modifiers.
Why do many oil change places, even dealerships, use 10W30 instead of 5W30, even when 5W30 is preferred?
According to www.cartalk.com (see link in the references section), as well as many mechanics who have posted on usenet, 10W30 is the closest thing to a one size fits all oil. Many older vehicles need 10W30, and most newer vehicles are okay with it in warmer climates. Since many garages don't want to have multiple tanks of bulk oil they choose to carry only 10W30. The advice that Tom & Ray give is correct, 'it would not be a disaster if you used 10W30, but given a choice, go with the manufacturer's recommendation and use the 5W30.'
Thicker is Better Myth
The reason that oil viscosities have gotten thinner is because bearing clearances have become smaller. Using thicker oils will interfere with oil flow and the oil pressure will increase. In a worn engine it may be okay to increase the viscosity of the oil because the bearing clearances have become larger.
Synthetic Oil
Advantages of Synthetic
Synthetic oil was originally developed for high performance racing engines. Mobil tried to popularize synthetic oil for passenger vehicles back in the early 1970's. At the time, Mobil was promoting 20K or 25K oil changes with synthetic, but they soon backed down from this. Synthetic oil is a good choice if you have a vehicle with a high performance engine (in fact synthetic is required for many of these engines). It is also a good choice if your vehicle is operated in extremely cold climates. It has higher resistance to breakdown caused by heat and it flows better in extreme cold. Unfortunately for the synthetic oil industry there is virtually no advantage to using synthetic oil in a non-high performance engine that is operated in moderate climates. You probably could go a bit longer between oil changes with a synthetic, i.e. following the normal service schedule even if you fall into the severe service category, but I wouldn't advise this. In short, synthetic may give you the peace of mind of knowing that you are using an oil that is far better than necessary for your vehicle, but it won't reduce wear or extend the life of the engine. The mistake some people make it to wrongly extrapolate these benefits onto normal engines operated in mild climates, with the ultimate lack of any knowledge being manifested with statements such as "synthetics provide 'Peace of Mind,' or 'Cheap Insurance,'" or other such nonsense.
Extended Change Intervals
Most manufacturers of synthetic oil advise users to not exceed the manufacturer's recommended oil change interval. Part of this is self interest (they don't want to be liable for any damage) but the real reason is that synthetic oil, while it does have certain advantages, still becomes contaminated.
Be extremely wary of synthetic oil companies that offer to pay for your repairs if it is determined that their oil and their extended change interval recommendation caused the problem. Think for a moment of the incredible hassle you would have to go through to prove responsibility for an engine problem. Who would pay your legal bills? Who would pay for replacement transportation during the battle? The more bizarre the warranty the poorer the product is a good rule of thumb.
API Certification, Phosphorus & ZDDP
Never use a non-API certified synthetic oil (there are many of these on the market). The problem with the non-API certified synthetics is that they contain too much phosphorus (in the form of the additive ZDDP (Zinc Dialkyl Dithiophosphates)). The API has limited the amount of phosphorus because phosphorus shortens the life of the catalytic converter. These oils are fine for snowmobiles, motorcycles, and older cars that don't have a catalytic converter, and the extra ZDDP does provide additional wear protection. Unfortunately, the marketers of some the non-certified oils do not explicitly and honestly state the reason for the lack of API certification. You can check the status of API certification on the API web site. Be certain to go not just by the manufacturer name but by the actual product as well. This is because a manufacturer will sometimes have both certified and non-certified products. Suffice it to say that Mobil 1, Royal Purple, Castrol, & Havoline all make synthetic oils that are API certified and that can be purchased at auto parts stores and other retail outlets. Amsoil has one product line, XL-7500 that is API certified, but it's other lines contain too much ZDDP to be certified and should not be used in vehicles with catalytic converters.
Amsoil
Amsoil actually makes some very good products. The negative image of Amsoil is due to their distribution method (MLM) and their marketing approach. If Amsoil products were competitively priced with Mobil 1 and other synthetics, and if I could buy them in a store, I would not hesitate to use their XL-7500 synthetic as opposed to Mobil 1. What upsets me about Amsoil is that they didn't disclose until recently (and then it was by accident) the real reason that their oils (except for XL-7500) are not API certified. In the past they came up with all sorts of bizarre excuses about the reason for their lack of API certification and this greatly contributed to the distrust that people have of the company.
02-27-2006, 04:12 PM
#78
Rest In Peace Jaak
Cable Guy
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Multigrades
Multigrade oils typically begin as base oils, such as 10W. Then viscosity-index modifiers (polymers) are added in an effort to stabilize the viscosity. This allows a 10W40 oil to flow like a 10W at cold temperatures and a 40W at higher temperatures.
The multigrade oils' viscosity modifiers are long-chain molecules that lessen the change of viscosity with temperature variance. In the past, the polymer additives (used to thicken the oil) were sometimes susceptible to viscosity loss. Permanent viscosity loss occurred when high shear forces (such as the relationship between the main bearings and the crankshaft) actually break the polymer molecules into less-effective smaller pieces. On a similar note, temporary viscosity loss also occurred when the polymer molecules aligned themselves in order to create a path of least resistance.
Fortunately, today's additive packages have improved oil's shear-resistance. However, oils with the same rating from different manufacturers can exhibit different viscosity ratings in an operating engine, depending on the shear stability of their viscosity-modifying additives.
For technoids, weights are defined thusly (stokes and centistrokes are measurements of viscosity):
"SAE 30 is SAE 30 no matter what the "W" prefix number is: 0W, 5W or 10W. This viscosity in centistokes (cSt) @ 100 degrees C is with the minimum of 9.3 cSt and a maximum of 12.5 cSt.
"SAE 40 is SAE 40 no matter what the "W" prefix number is: 5W, 10W, 15W or 20W. The viscosity @ 100 degrees C is within the minim of 12.5 cSt and a maximum of 16.3 cSt.
"SAE 50 is SAE 50 no matter what the "W" prefix number is: 5W, 10W, 15W or 25W. The viscosity @ 100 degrees C is within the minimum of 16.3 cSt and a maximum of 21.9 cSt.
"SAE 60 is SAE 60 no matter what the "W" prefix number is: 10W, 15W or 25W. The viscosity @ 100 degrees C is within the minimum of 21.9 cSt and a maximum of 26.1 cSt.
"There is no SAE 70 and no one is likely to make one with a "W" prefix number although it is possible using a synthetic base oil. This viscosity is identified as Grade 70. The viscosity @ 100 degrees C has a minimum of 26.1 cSt and no maximum."
The difference between a multigrade and a singlegrade oil: The singlegrade can't pass the low temperature viscosity test. If it did meet one of the following "W" viscosities, it would be a multigrade.
Singlegrade oils will become obsolete for performance engines in the future. We dropped SAE 30 and SAE 40 because SAE 10W40 does everything 30 or 40 can do—and some things the straight grades can't do—like increasing horsepower. If an off-roader doesn't like 10W40, then use 20W50. It can do everything a 10W40 can do except pass the sub-zero viscosity test at -20 degrees C.
Multigrade viscosities are run at six different sub-zero temperatures. When a racing-oil designer puts a formula together, he has to know the viscosity at 100 degrees C of every component in the additive composition. He has to have a target viscosity objective for the finished oil in each SAE grade. Once a formula is established, the technician who supervises the blending has to duplicate this formula in the correct proportions every time the product is blended. The viscosity at 100 degrees C has a plus or minus written into the oil's quality-control specification.
Multigrade oils typically begin as base oils, such as 10W. Then viscosity-index modifiers (polymers) are added in an effort to stabilize the viscosity. This allows a 10W40 oil to flow like a 10W at cold temperatures and a 40W at higher temperatures.
The multigrade oils' viscosity modifiers are long-chain molecules that lessen the change of viscosity with temperature variance. In the past, the polymer additives (used to thicken the oil) were sometimes susceptible to viscosity loss. Permanent viscosity loss occurred when high shear forces (such as the relationship between the main bearings and the crankshaft) actually break the polymer molecules into less-effective smaller pieces. On a similar note, temporary viscosity loss also occurred when the polymer molecules aligned themselves in order to create a path of least resistance.
Fortunately, today's additive packages have improved oil's shear-resistance. However, oils with the same rating from different manufacturers can exhibit different viscosity ratings in an operating engine, depending on the shear stability of their viscosity-modifying additives.
For technoids, weights are defined thusly (stokes and centistrokes are measurements of viscosity):
"SAE 30 is SAE 30 no matter what the "W" prefix number is: 0W, 5W or 10W. This viscosity in centistokes (cSt) @ 100 degrees C is with the minimum of 9.3 cSt and a maximum of 12.5 cSt.
"SAE 40 is SAE 40 no matter what the "W" prefix number is: 5W, 10W, 15W or 20W. The viscosity @ 100 degrees C is within the minim of 12.5 cSt and a maximum of 16.3 cSt.
"SAE 50 is SAE 50 no matter what the "W" prefix number is: 5W, 10W, 15W or 25W. The viscosity @ 100 degrees C is within the minimum of 16.3 cSt and a maximum of 21.9 cSt.
"SAE 60 is SAE 60 no matter what the "W" prefix number is: 10W, 15W or 25W. The viscosity @ 100 degrees C is within the minimum of 21.9 cSt and a maximum of 26.1 cSt.
"There is no SAE 70 and no one is likely to make one with a "W" prefix number although it is possible using a synthetic base oil. This viscosity is identified as Grade 70. The viscosity @ 100 degrees C has a minimum of 26.1 cSt and no maximum."
The difference between a multigrade and a singlegrade oil: The singlegrade can't pass the low temperature viscosity test. If it did meet one of the following "W" viscosities, it would be a multigrade.
Singlegrade oils will become obsolete for performance engines in the future. We dropped SAE 30 and SAE 40 because SAE 10W40 does everything 30 or 40 can do—and some things the straight grades can't do—like increasing horsepower. If an off-roader doesn't like 10W40, then use 20W50. It can do everything a 10W40 can do except pass the sub-zero viscosity test at -20 degrees C.
Multigrade viscosities are run at six different sub-zero temperatures. When a racing-oil designer puts a formula together, he has to know the viscosity at 100 degrees C of every component in the additive composition. He has to have a target viscosity objective for the finished oil in each SAE grade. Once a formula is established, the technician who supervises the blending has to duplicate this formula in the correct proportions every time the product is blended. The viscosity at 100 degrees C has a plus or minus written into the oil's quality-control specification.
02-27-2006, 04:22 PM
#79
Rest In Peace Jaak
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Brand VI Flash Pour % ash % zinc
20W-50
AMSOIL* 151 507 -45
AMSOIL Series 2000* 155 474 -47
Castrol GTX* 122 440 -15 .85 .12
Castrol Syntec Blend* 135 440 -17 .105
Chevron Supreme* 140 428 -17 <1
Exxon High Performance 119 419 -13 .70 .11
Havoline Formula 3 125 465 -30 1.0
Kendall GT-1 129 390 -25 1.0 .16
Pennzoil GT Perf. 120 460 -10 .9
Quaker State Perf.* 121 440 -20
Quaker State Motorcycle 140 440 -25
Red Line 150 503 -49
Shell Fire and Ice* 126 450 -10 .9 .12
Shell Truck Guard* 130 450 -15 1.0 .12
Spectro Golden 4 174 440 -35 .15
Spectro Golden M.G. 174 440 -35 .13
Ultra Chem 190 455 -34
Unocal 121 432 -11 .74 .12
Valvoline All Climate 125 430 -10 1.0 .11
Valvoline Turbo 140 440 -10 .99 .13
Valvoline Race 140 425 -10 1.2 .20
Valvoline DuraBlend 126 455 -17 <1.5 .125
Valvoline Synthetic 146 465 -40 <1.5 .12
15W-50
Mobil 1 170 470 -55
Mystic JT8 144 420 -20 1.7 .15
Red Line 152 503 -49
5W-50
Castrol Syntec* 175 465 <-54 .102
Chevron Supreme* 175 460 -38 1.45
Quaker State Synquest* 175 460 -50
Pennzoil Performax 176 -69
5W-40
Havoline 170 450 -40 1.4
15W-40
AMSOIL* 165 462 -49
Castrol 134 415 -15 1.3 .14
Chevron Delo 400* 134 424 -38 <1
Exxon XD3 417 -11 .9 .14
Exxon XD3 Extra 135 399 -11 .95 .13
Kendall GT-1 135 410 -25 1.0 .16
Mystic JT8 142 440 -20 1.7 .15
Quaker State* 129 420 -25
Quaker State HDX* 146 440 -30 .97
Quaker State HDX Plus* 148 420 -25 1.37
Red Line 149 495 -40
Shell Rotella w/XLA* 146 414 -32 1.0 .12
Valvoline All Fleet 140 -10 1.0 .15
Valvoline DuraBlend 137 450 -17 <1.5 .125
Valvoline Turbo 140 420 -10 .99 .13
10W-30
AMSOIL* 171 464 -54
Castrol GTX* 143 415 -32 1.07 .12
Castrol Syntec Blend* 138 415 -33 .105
Castrol Syntec* 157 455 <-54 .102
Chevron Supreme* 150 419 -27 <1
Exxon Superflo Hi Perf 135 392 -22 .70 .11
Exxon Superflo Supreme 133 400 -31 .85 .13
Havoline Formula 3 139 430 -30 1.0
Kendall GT-1 139 390 -25 1.0 .16
Mobil 1 160 450 -65
Pennzoil PLZ Turbo 140 410 -27 1.0
Quaker State* 140 410 -30 .9
Quaker State 4x4* 135 430 -35
Red Line 139 475 -40
Shell Fire and Ice* 155 410 -35 .9 .12
Shell Rotella w/XLA* 155 405 -37 1.0 .12
Shell Truck Guard* 155 405 -35 1.0 .12
Spectro Golden M.G. 175 405 -40
Unocal Super 153 428 -33 .92 .12
Valvoline All Climate 130 410 -26 1.0 .11
Valvoline Turbo 135 410 -26 .99 .13
Valvoline Race 130 410 -26 1.2 .20
Valvoline DuraBlend 142 440 -27 <1.5 .125
Valvoline Synthetic 140 450 -40 <1.5 .12
5W-30
AMSOIL* 186 478 -67
Castrol GTX* 160 410 -35 1.35 .12
Chevron Supreme* 167 410 -38 <1
Chevron Supreme Synt.* 169 468 -49
Exxon Superflow HP 148 392 -22 .70 .11
Havoline Formula 3 158 420 -40 1.0
Mobil 1 165 445 -65
Mystic JT8 161 390 -25 .95 .1
Quaker State* 155 405 -35
Quaker State Synquest* 168 450 -58
Red Line 151 455 -49
Shell Fire and Ice* 167 405 -35 .9 .12
Unocal 151 414 -33 .81 .12
Valvoline All Climate 135 405 -40 1.0 .11
Valvoline Turbo 158 405 -40 .99 .13
Valvoline DuraBlend 162 415 -38 <1.5 .125
Valvoline Synthetic 160 435 -40 <1.5 .12
Note: * indicates current SH rated oil
20W-50
AMSOIL* 151 507 -45
AMSOIL Series 2000* 155 474 -47
Castrol GTX* 122 440 -15 .85 .12
Castrol Syntec Blend* 135 440 -17 .105
Chevron Supreme* 140 428 -17 <1
Exxon High Performance 119 419 -13 .70 .11
Havoline Formula 3 125 465 -30 1.0
Kendall GT-1 129 390 -25 1.0 .16
Pennzoil GT Perf. 120 460 -10 .9
Quaker State Perf.* 121 440 -20
Quaker State Motorcycle 140 440 -25
Red Line 150 503 -49
Shell Fire and Ice* 126 450 -10 .9 .12
Shell Truck Guard* 130 450 -15 1.0 .12
Spectro Golden 4 174 440 -35 .15
Spectro Golden M.G. 174 440 -35 .13
Ultra Chem 190 455 -34
Unocal 121 432 -11 .74 .12
Valvoline All Climate 125 430 -10 1.0 .11
Valvoline Turbo 140 440 -10 .99 .13
Valvoline Race 140 425 -10 1.2 .20
Valvoline DuraBlend 126 455 -17 <1.5 .125
Valvoline Synthetic 146 465 -40 <1.5 .12
15W-50
Mobil 1 170 470 -55
Mystic JT8 144 420 -20 1.7 .15
Red Line 152 503 -49
5W-50
Castrol Syntec* 175 465 <-54 .102
Chevron Supreme* 175 460 -38 1.45
Quaker State Synquest* 175 460 -50
Pennzoil Performax 176 -69
5W-40
Havoline 170 450 -40 1.4
15W-40
AMSOIL* 165 462 -49
Castrol 134 415 -15 1.3 .14
Chevron Delo 400* 134 424 -38 <1
Exxon XD3 417 -11 .9 .14
Exxon XD3 Extra 135 399 -11 .95 .13
Kendall GT-1 135 410 -25 1.0 .16
Mystic JT8 142 440 -20 1.7 .15
Quaker State* 129 420 -25
Quaker State HDX* 146 440 -30 .97
Quaker State HDX Plus* 148 420 -25 1.37
Red Line 149 495 -40
Shell Rotella w/XLA* 146 414 -32 1.0 .12
Valvoline All Fleet 140 -10 1.0 .15
Valvoline DuraBlend 137 450 -17 <1.5 .125
Valvoline Turbo 140 420 -10 .99 .13
10W-30
AMSOIL* 171 464 -54
Castrol GTX* 143 415 -32 1.07 .12
Castrol Syntec Blend* 138 415 -33 .105
Castrol Syntec* 157 455 <-54 .102
Chevron Supreme* 150 419 -27 <1
Exxon Superflo Hi Perf 135 392 -22 .70 .11
Exxon Superflo Supreme 133 400 -31 .85 .13
Havoline Formula 3 139 430 -30 1.0
Kendall GT-1 139 390 -25 1.0 .16
Mobil 1 160 450 -65
Pennzoil PLZ Turbo 140 410 -27 1.0
Quaker State* 140 410 -30 .9
Quaker State 4x4* 135 430 -35
Red Line 139 475 -40
Shell Fire and Ice* 155 410 -35 .9 .12
Shell Rotella w/XLA* 155 405 -37 1.0 .12
Shell Truck Guard* 155 405 -35 1.0 .12
Spectro Golden M.G. 175 405 -40
Unocal Super 153 428 -33 .92 .12
Valvoline All Climate 130 410 -26 1.0 .11
Valvoline Turbo 135 410 -26 .99 .13
Valvoline Race 130 410 -26 1.2 .20
Valvoline DuraBlend 142 440 -27 <1.5 .125
Valvoline Synthetic 140 450 -40 <1.5 .12
5W-30
AMSOIL* 186 478 -67
Castrol GTX* 160 410 -35 1.35 .12
Chevron Supreme* 167 410 -38 <1
Chevron Supreme Synt.* 169 468 -49
Exxon Superflow HP 148 392 -22 .70 .11
Havoline Formula 3 158 420 -40 1.0
Mobil 1 165 445 -65
Mystic JT8 161 390 -25 .95 .1
Quaker State* 155 405 -35
Quaker State Synquest* 168 450 -58
Red Line 151 455 -49
Shell Fire and Ice* 167 405 -35 .9 .12
Unocal 151 414 -33 .81 .12
Valvoline All Climate 135 405 -40 1.0 .11
Valvoline Turbo 158 405 -40 .99 .13
Valvoline DuraBlend 162 415 -38 <1.5 .125
Valvoline Synthetic 160 435 -40 <1.5 .12
Note: * indicates current SH rated oil
02-27-2006, 04:50 PM
#81
Rest In Peace Jaak
Cable Guy
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Originally Posted by pk951
Great link thanks. How much are you asking for the chips? are they for Afm?
02-28-2006, 04:10 AM
#82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turby
Redline 20-50
QUOTE=d993]Redline 20W50 Synthetic?
You'd better hope they have that in prison.
It will be easier on your *** after repeated, high speed thrusting you f'in thief!!![/QUOTE]
Great one
02-28-2006, 02:50 PM
#83
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Originally Posted by Jaak Lepson
From Oil Myth Busters .... LINKY HERE
Jaak
*****************************************
Thicker is Better Myth
The reason that oil viscosities have gotten thinner is because bearing clearances have become smaller. Using thicker oils will interfere with oil flow and the oil pressure will increase. In a worn engine it may be okay to increase the viscosity of the oil because the bearing clearances have become larger.
Jaak
*****************************************
Thicker is Better Myth
The reason that oil viscosities have gotten thinner is because bearing clearances have become smaller. Using thicker oils will interfere with oil flow and the oil pressure will increase. In a worn engine it may be okay to increase the viscosity of the oil because the bearing clearances have become larger.
"We were so close to 500 lb-ft that we decided to pull out the magic wand: synthetic oil. It's generally worth a few power numbers, so we drained the 10W30 dinosaur sauce and poured in Royal Purple's 5W30 street oil (lighter-weight racing oil is also available). It took three dyno pulls for the synthetic to do its thing, then it made the repeatable power we wanted: 502.9 lb-ft and 463 hp. As an average from 2,500 to 5,800 rpm, the Royal Purple bought us 7 hp and 10 lb-ft. Combined with the extra engine protection and heat resistance, this is a no-brainer. "
So, a V-8 motor, which creates more friction than an inline 4, that is making close to 500 hp, gains 7 hp. And they were running dino oil before. So how much power do you think your 220-400 hp 944T is going to gain from switching to a lower viscosity? Not worth the increased wear in my opinion.
Now, I'm not saying you should not switch to a lower viscosity when the weather gets colder. I would recommend that, but I wouldn't run less than a 10W-40 synthetic in the winter.
02-28-2006, 09:29 PM
#84
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What is the big difference if you run a 0w-40 or a 10w-40 oil. They are the same viscosity hot. Especially when it is a synthetic oil the build specs are much better. The honda engine clearances are not tighter than a fresh 944 engine built to spec. And any engine will have power freed up if you put oil that is more slippery in it (synthetic)
03-01-2006, 11:51 AM
#85
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I used a very light weight Mobil 1 Syn after my rebuild and it leaked. Then went to a little thicker and was ok.
The rebuild was done VERY well and very meticuals by my mechs. that are a Porsche only shop and do a lot prep work for track cars, so it was the oil.
The rebuild was done VERY well and very meticuals by my mechs. that are a Porsche only shop and do a lot prep work for track cars, so it was the oil.
03-01-2006, 11:53 AM
#86
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Oh, and they are big supporters of Amsoil. They said they have run track cars hard with all types of oils over the years. After a break down and rebuild when using Amsoil, they said there was a very noticable difference in ZERO wear with Amsoil.
03-01-2006, 11:25 PM
#87
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Originally Posted by porshaowner
What is the big difference if you run a 0w-40 or a 10w-40 oil. They are the same viscosity hot. Especially when it is a synthetic oil the build specs are much better. The honda engine clearances are not tighter than a fresh 944 engine built to spec. And any engine will have power freed up if you put oil that is more slippery in it (synthetic)
03-04-2006, 12:35 PM
#88
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Thanks Jaak, good read. Now check out http://www.mobil.com/Canada-English/...l_1_15W-50.asp
The VI has been lowered to 153 from the previous 170, which is why I switched to Redline 20w-50 and the fact that I don't see temps below 14 to 17 F (the lower end for 20w.)
Lou
The VI has been lowered to 153 from the previous 170, which is why I switched to Redline 20w-50 and the fact that I don't see temps below 14 to 17 F (the lower end for 20w.)
Lou
03-05-2006, 07:56 AM
#89
Instructor
Originally Posted by toddk911
Oh, and they are big supporters of Amsoil. They said they have run track cars hard with all types of oils over the years. After a break down and rebuild when using Amsoil, they said there was a very noticable difference in ZERO wear with Amsoil.
My only concern - will the oilfilm last high temp?
The engine looked brand new from the inside except (the rodbearings).
Used allways 5W-50 for about 50'000 km.
03-05-2006, 01:45 PM
#90
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u use valvoline VR-1 20-50. but i also use lucas oil stabiliser. you want slippery? this stuff will make the best synthetic look like glue..... its also kinda sticky *hard to explain really...* so theres no such thing as a dry start. used it in my 924S's motor and transaxel and picked up easily 20 HP total....