Landjet

Skip I just sent you a PM on a MAF system I have for sale.

Andy

Without sounding like Jesse but still trying to get the point across, just buy John's MAF with board chip. The reason why you need to fine tune all those other chips is because they take a MAF signal, tweek it for injectors, turbo, boost level, etc and convert it what the ECU is used to seeing from an AFM. Because every car is different and boost is always variable, those other systems were never very accurate.

Forget all that, I know that's hard, I've been around here for at least 5 years and have seen all kinds of stuff come and go, but John's set-up is IT! I don't know how's he's done it but his new board chip isn't tied to these same old limitations. It reads air mass (no matter what boost level) and shoots in the right fuel. I have a similiar set-up with no additional tuning and it has a dead on flat A/F curve whether it's half throttle at 10 psi or WOT @ 16 psi in second gear or (John will shoot me) 19 psi in 5th gear on these cold days.

Bottom line, unless you're pushing the boundries like Special Tool, my money says you don't need to fine-tune his system at all!

Skip Wolfe

Thanks for the post Andy. Do you have any dyno charts by any chance. I'd be interested to see what sort of power you made and what your A/F curve looks like.

Not to sound too cynical, but I have been around the Rennlist for quite some time as well, and I have also seen the "hot" setup come and go - heck I have Guru chips. I would just like to see some analytical data before dropping down $1250, rather than spending the money just because it's the popular setup. I have no doubt that John has excellent customer service and he looks to have some innovative, well thought our products. If I could afford his MAF with the piggyback I would be all over it, but I can't and am just a bit skeptical about being able to hit the right fuel map with a chip only MAF setup right out of the box for a non-stock setup.

Anyway - thanks again for the input, and any dyno charts or wideband data would be very much appreciated.

David Floyd

My non-stock setup runs straight off the Vitesse chip/board. I have an older wideband and no way to log AFR but watching looks like 95%.

I do have the SMT6 for very fine tuning when I can get to the dyno, but for now runs great on chip alone.

Like you I have been around a while, this is the real deal. IMHO

Andy

I have not gone back to the dyno since putting John's stuff on. I also want to compare it to my old APE stuff but I have a cracked 2-3 header I'm trying to decide what to do with. I kept my old APE stuff for a long time because it was consistant and on the conservative side. I almost tried Guru 3-4 years ago, and there's a few things of Lindsey's I'd like to have, but for software John hit a homerun with the board. It has great driveability, I drive it everyday without a hiccup. It transitions to an open loop map at much lower throttle settings which makes it stronger at low revs or part throttle. I hammered it at a track (five 20 minute sessions over about 7 hrs) and it ran great. And best of all I haven't spent time I don't have tuning!

I should take it to the dyno even with the cracked header anyway...

lart951

I found this LR maf on ebay seems to be a good deal, also the seller has good feedback. Is the whole LR package with the mafterburner and wideband integrated.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...e=STRK:MESE:IT

fast951

Skip, this response is not directed at you, however to all people interested in this subject. It is understandable why you should be skeptical. With so much "crap" on the market who wouldn't be. It's a shame that the 951 community has to suffer from "fly-by-night" vendors, from vendors selling substandard products but at a "cheap" price. Well, at Vitesse, we stand behind our products. We deliver what we say we are delivering! We are not the "Popular Choice" because we have shiny products or great sales pitch (which we do not)! We became popular because we proved our products. We delivered performance and reliability! Our MAF kit gets AFR on target 95-97% out of the box...

Maybe you should see who can get a 951 to run on 75# or 95# injectors with smooth idle and crisp response, proper AFR OUT OF THE BOX.

Perhaps people that converted from XYZ products to Vitesse products can share their experiences here. Not just MAF, but any other product we offer.

jgporsche

skip, i will post a dyno chart for you thursday night. i have one right now i could pm you, but it is with a busted bypass valve.

promax_motorsport

4. ProMAX Scivision MAF kit $849.95 (usually $999.95 - but we are offering this Rennlist group buy price until further notice).

Regards,
Andrew

jimbo1111

I own a VR maf. The A/f is excellent out of the box with 72lb injectors. I have not dynoed the car yet. I am more interested in hearing about the timing. A/f is close to perfect. The timing should be discussed because the car goes into different loads points with different boost settings and/or different turbos. I always believed to get the timing perfect a maf must max out at the peak hp output. I am interested in hearing from John or TT with an explanation as to how the timing will advance with a maf not fully maxxed out. Or is there a key boost level one must run to get the best performance.

Mike1982

Hey Skip, I put in the MAF and SMT-6 from Vitesse just last fall which is was 99% RIGHT on tune with my car, so that was nice. So, if you did go with Vitesse, I would not seeing you have to tune much at ALL if you got chips from him and told him what you have on the car. A piggyback is nice, but really unless you know what you are doing or who is messing with the piggyback really knows what they are doing, you could do some damage to your engine, so keep that in mind. As Lindsey racing goes, I haven't heard anything bad about them or their products (I would know because I also buy items from them). If you went to Lindsey, you COULD get the piggy back with that MAF for fine tuning (which you might need running a larger turbo).
By the way, we meet up once in Cleveland with Dan P. and a couple other rennlisters, so if you need any more advice either way, let me know. Also, I have the MAF and SMT-6 installed in my car, if you care to take a look at the finish, how it drives, spool up time, etc. I can even bring up my laptop and show you how the SMT-6 works a little more if you ever care to get that down the line. If you do the work yourself and need any help, just give me a call. Send me a PM then for my info.

fast951

Very good question, glad you asked! We use the MAF signal to calculate load, we use the proper transfer function based on the MAF calibration (there is a unique transfer function for each MAF style and calibration). MAF sensors that look the same may not have the same calibration. So one size fits all does not work, not if you want it done correctly.
Once the load value is calculated properly, it its used downstream for Fuel and Timing. A MAF voltage is nothing but a signal, it does not need to max out at TOP power. As long as you interpret the signal properly, there is no issue.
WOT timing is a different story alltogether. We rely on experience to fill in the blanks...

When a signal massager (piggyback) is used to translate the MAF signal to look like AFM signal so the DME running AFM chip understands it, you get into trouble. The MAF is generating a signal which you are changing before it gets to the DME. The DME now uses the modifed signal and calculates a load value. This load value is not the actual or REAL value. You go ahead and use the incorrect value, and you will pickup the incorrect timing, mainly at Part Throttle.. This mismatch in load can be noticed in many ways, some of which is hesitaion..

Many MAF are out there, and many people are offering more and more products. However, Vitesse is the ONLY one offering a comprehensive solution, not just Band Aid. The more modified the car, the more important it is to get the correct software. If you just want a "cheap" solution, just keep the AFM in place.

fast951

Andrew, thank you for bringing up the pricing issue. I never compare our products to anyone else, but since you started it. Let's investigate this a bit more.

- When does the MAF you sell Max out. The Bosch unit you are using is rated at how much flow? Does it flow much more than the stock AFM?

- Does your kit suports larger injectors with a smooth idle? Can you run 72# or 83# injectors if needed, and keep nice idle and crisp response?

Not putting down your products, but before you comapre your product to Vitesse, it's best to show the complete picture. Fair is fair...

f1rocks

You're gonna get in trouble.....at least get some letters in red below your name and how about ones that match JV's letters before offering a free plug on product...

testarossa_td