313 km/h video in a 951
09-20-2005, 08:44 PM
#61
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345 km/h or 214 mph
Are these numbers ok? This is the max you can get with the right gear box strong springs and a good head.
I personaly do not care for anything over 300 Km/h The perfect choice for a F1 Race track in our car is a 275 km/h top speed. Don´t ask how I know this but this is my job.
So the stock gear box is ok ffor racing. You just need more HP and Torque. For the street a little longer would be ok.
I want to improve my accelaration time another 25%. Thats all. Top speed? who cares? If you accelarate faster and you brake faster you are faster for sure. No reason to wait many sec for another 10 or 20 km/h. Importnad is that you go to 275 or 300 km/h FAST. The faster you are there the better
Konstantin
Are these numbers ok? This is the max you can get with the right gear box strong springs and a good head.
I personaly do not care for anything over 300 Km/h The perfect choice for a F1 Race track in our car is a 275 km/h top speed. Don´t ask how I know this but this is my job.
So the stock gear box is ok ffor racing. You just need more HP and Torque. For the street a little longer would be ok.
I want to improve my accelaration time another 25%. Thats all. Top speed? who cares? If you accelarate faster and you brake faster you are faster for sure. No reason to wait many sec for another 10 or 20 km/h. Importnad is that you go to 275 or 300 km/h FAST. The faster you are there the better
Konstantin
09-20-2005, 08:53 PM
#62
That's insanely fast! If i'm traveling that fast I want to be in an airplane!
A stock 944 turbo is plenty fast for my tastes. I agree with the top speed thing (who cares), quicker (accell) is always better, for me personally.
Boy I envy you with a "Job" like that! driving porsche on F1 circuits! I'm an avid F1 fan, watch all the races live, no matter where in the world they are... Need to win lotto... Then I could watch them in person!
A stock 944 turbo is plenty fast for my tastes. I agree with the top speed thing (who cares), quicker (accell) is always better, for me personally.
Boy I envy you with a "Job" like that! driving porsche on F1 circuits! I'm an avid F1 fan, watch all the races live, no matter where in the world they are... Need to win lotto... Then I could watch them in person!
09-28-2005, 07:27 AM
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Hey guys- awesome video... Not sure how accurate the speedo is, but, that's VERY fast for a 951- stock Turbo's hit ~155 & Turbo S was 162 & was NOT gear limited- it was drag limited for sure... stock redline in 5th was 167.... Still, I agree that 5th in these cars is a hair short, but, more on that later...
The diameter of the wheel makes no difference- 15" or 20"... it's the RD (Rolling Diamter) of the tire that matters... Someone asked if the dif in speeds was linear from wheel size to wheel size... it is not... Konstantin listed the tires as 285/30/18.... right? This is actually a slightly smaller wheel than stock- RD that is.... You're at 24.73... 951 was 24.86... Turbo S was 24.68. The standard 17's for the 968 (255/40/17) were 25.03- I've always wanted to run 285/35/18s (25.85)...
Stock FD is 3.38 & stock 5th is .83... 6-sp from 968 is horrible for top three gears- WAY too close together- redlines for the 951 w/stock RD are: 1- 40, 2- 67, 3- 99, 4- 143, 5- 167.... Stock Redlines for 968 6-sp w/stock RD (225/50/16) are: 1- 40, 2- 63, 3- 87, 4- 114, 5- 135, 6- 156.... So, 6th in a 968 is even SHORTER than 5th in 951... What are the gears in the 968 Turbo??? Anyone know???
Anyway, several have mentioned taller 5th gears- 944 NA is .72 & 944 S2 is .778. These gears, w/stock RD @ 6400 RPM redline would give ~193 & ~180 respectively- I think the S2 would be a nice compromise for the stock 4th gear- not too much of a hole, like the NA 5th would be- would bring the redline speed up to ~180 from ~167. The jump to ~193 would leave a pretty big hole b/t 4th & 5th & would be hard to use for even most modded 951's, since the RPM drop would be so severe b/t 4th & 5th... OF course, Konstantin's car could deal w/it I'm sure... Looks like you have a car that's capable of close to 200mph, but, remember- the Cx & FA make a MUCH bigger deal the faster you go- it's an exponential difference... A car that can hit 190 at that perfect point w/the right amount of HP, etc, would need close to 80HP more just to get that last 10mph...
Anyway, there are several dif formulas for gearing/speeds, etc.... The one I use always compares almost perfectly w/magazine listings, etc...
RD X RPM X 2.96 / FD X Gear X 1000 = Speed
so:
24.73 X 6800 X 2.96 / 3.38 X .83 = Speed
497,765.44 / 2.8054 = 177.43... Not sure what that is in Kmh, but, it's a lot dif.... Sorry... not trying to bring anyone down... There are a lot of inconsistencies at higher speeds- for all we know, the tachometer could be off & you could really have been running 7000...? Also, the drop in HP from 6200 to 6800 is pretty big- another 50HP would have made quite a dif- that should have given a good 10mph in that range of speed...
951 North- what is the actual formula from the Scirocco site? I looked, but, could not find it... I like mine a lot- it's not perfect, but, has been very accurate in all the years I've used it, but, always like to see others...
The diameter of the wheel makes no difference- 15" or 20"... it's the RD (Rolling Diamter) of the tire that matters... Someone asked if the dif in speeds was linear from wheel size to wheel size... it is not... Konstantin listed the tires as 285/30/18.... right? This is actually a slightly smaller wheel than stock- RD that is.... You're at 24.73... 951 was 24.86... Turbo S was 24.68. The standard 17's for the 968 (255/40/17) were 25.03- I've always wanted to run 285/35/18s (25.85)...
Stock FD is 3.38 & stock 5th is .83... 6-sp from 968 is horrible for top three gears- WAY too close together- redlines for the 951 w/stock RD are: 1- 40, 2- 67, 3- 99, 4- 143, 5- 167.... Stock Redlines for 968 6-sp w/stock RD (225/50/16) are: 1- 40, 2- 63, 3- 87, 4- 114, 5- 135, 6- 156.... So, 6th in a 968 is even SHORTER than 5th in 951... What are the gears in the 968 Turbo??? Anyone know???
Anyway, several have mentioned taller 5th gears- 944 NA is .72 & 944 S2 is .778. These gears, w/stock RD @ 6400 RPM redline would give ~193 & ~180 respectively- I think the S2 would be a nice compromise for the stock 4th gear- not too much of a hole, like the NA 5th would be- would bring the redline speed up to ~180 from ~167. The jump to ~193 would leave a pretty big hole b/t 4th & 5th & would be hard to use for even most modded 951's, since the RPM drop would be so severe b/t 4th & 5th... OF course, Konstantin's car could deal w/it I'm sure... Looks like you have a car that's capable of close to 200mph, but, remember- the Cx & FA make a MUCH bigger deal the faster you go- it's an exponential difference... A car that can hit 190 at that perfect point w/the right amount of HP, etc, would need close to 80HP more just to get that last 10mph...
Anyway, there are several dif formulas for gearing/speeds, etc.... The one I use always compares almost perfectly w/magazine listings, etc...
RD X RPM X 2.96 / FD X Gear X 1000 = Speed
so:
24.73 X 6800 X 2.96 / 3.38 X .83 = Speed
497,765.44 / 2.8054 = 177.43... Not sure what that is in Kmh, but, it's a lot dif.... Sorry... not trying to bring anyone down... There are a lot of inconsistencies at higher speeds- for all we know, the tachometer could be off & you could really have been running 7000...? Also, the drop in HP from 6200 to 6800 is pretty big- another 50HP would have made quite a dif- that should have given a good 10mph in that range of speed...
951 North- what is the actual formula from the Scirocco site? I looked, but, could not find it... I like mine a lot- it's not perfect, but, has been very accurate in all the years I've used it, but, always like to see others...
09-28-2005, 07:37 AM
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Hello
RP is not 3.38 but 3.375
5th is 0.829
so now we are exact ;-)
anyway my trany is not stock s I said before.
yyes at lower RPM I would have more power
178 is the top speed of the 968 Turbo S with 305 HP
1,6*178 about 284.5 km/h
the gear ratio for the 968 Turbo S can be found on my website
www.968turbo.de
Konstantin
RP is not 3.38 but 3.375
5th is 0.829
so now we are exact ;-)
anyway my trany is not stock s I said before.
yyes at lower RPM I would have more power
178 is the top speed of the 968 Turbo S with 305 HP
1,6*178 about 284.5 km/h
the gear ratio for the 968 Turbo S can be found on my website
www.968turbo.de
Konstantin
09-28-2005, 09:49 AM
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Konstantin- I'm sorry- I could have sworn you said it was stock- I just looked back through & found where you said it was NOT stock... The quote "how fast is a stock 951 trany at 6800 upm with 285-18 tires" threw me off... What gear do you have now? We could figure it out....
In any event, your 285/30/18's are pretty close to stock RD- right b/t turbo & turbo S sizes. So, going by stock OR of 2.805 (overall ratio = FD X individual gear) @ 6800 rpms, it's just under 180mph (288kmh)... Are you using a 944S2 or 944NA 5th?
One thing's for sure- you went through that 5th gear pretty damn fast!!! I've recorded a run or two in my stock Turbo S from ~80mph (128kmh) to ~140mph (224kmh) & it took forever- I've also beaten a Volvo S60R (300HP) & a new 350Z on the freeway- the X was VERY CLOSE, but, still- was impressed my 17yr old car could even hang w/it.... It took a long time for me to accelerate after the shift into 5th & you were doing at LEAST 37mph higher in the end.... So, depending on how much taller gear you have, it's that much more impressive- hell, I recorded a run in an E46M3 convertible from ~80mph to ~140mph once- much faster car than my Turbo S, but, not nearly as fast as what your video shows.... It's really hard to accelerate at those higher #'s... I'm going to check the site for the 968 turbo gears...
Anyway, I wasn't trying to discredit you in any way- as I said, there are lots of variables in these situations... Would like to know more about your car though...
In any event, your 285/30/18's are pretty close to stock RD- right b/t turbo & turbo S sizes. So, going by stock OR of 2.805 (overall ratio = FD X individual gear) @ 6800 rpms, it's just under 180mph (288kmh)... Are you using a 944S2 or 944NA 5th?
One thing's for sure- you went through that 5th gear pretty damn fast!!! I've recorded a run or two in my stock Turbo S from ~80mph (128kmh) to ~140mph (224kmh) & it took forever- I've also beaten a Volvo S60R (300HP) & a new 350Z on the freeway- the X was VERY CLOSE, but, still- was impressed my 17yr old car could even hang w/it.... It took a long time for me to accelerate after the shift into 5th & you were doing at LEAST 37mph higher in the end.... So, depending on how much taller gear you have, it's that much more impressive- hell, I recorded a run in an E46M3 convertible from ~80mph to ~140mph once- much faster car than my Turbo S, but, not nearly as fast as what your video shows.... It's really hard to accelerate at those higher #'s... I'm going to check the site for the 968 turbo gears...
Anyway, I wasn't trying to discredit you in any way- as I said, there are lots of variables in these situations... Would like to know more about your car though...
09-28-2005, 12:08 PM
#66
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Originally Posted by Campeck
dont forget the speedo is ALWAYS off. X 2
dont forget the speedo is ALWAYS off. X 2
Tommy
09-28-2005, 02:31 PM
#67
Originally Posted by Robby
-snip-
951 North- what is the actual formula from the Scirocco site? I looked, but, could not find it... I like mine a lot- it's not perfect, but, has been very accurate in all the years I've used it, but, always like to see others...
951 North- what is the actual formula from the Scirocco site? I looked, but, could not find it... I like mine a lot- it's not perfect, but, has been very accurate in all the years I've used it, but, always like to see others...
Konstantin, any chance we'll see more video of your track days? Where is it? Nurburgring or Hockenheimring. Much appreciated...
09-29-2005, 03:22 AM
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951North- I was asking what the formula was, not the scource... I guess you just listed it, but, what is the conversion factor? I know what you're saying about the technical dif's though- mine does not take into account static load, etc, but, it's close enough IMO- w/in ~1mph...
Several people have mentioned higher speeds for 951's from way back when- Tommye- you just said that about 180mph... I've never seen ANY 951 tested above 162 & that was Turbo S- the only listing I've seen for factory 951 that want above this was one of the original ads- had the 944GTP beside the street 951- listed HP @ 405HP & 2040lbs & top speed of 175+mph IIRC... Either way, were there any tests that showed higher? Would have to be modded b/c stock redline w/stock gearing w/stock RD givces 167mph, so, I'm just wondering about all this....
Either way, it's cool to see higher speeed 951's like Konstatin's doing well aerodynamically... Scott Gomes claims his personal 951 will hit >205mph... he does it w/high reves though- I think he's >8000rpms... He's working on one to break 240mph or maybe 250mph, right now- planning to hit the Great Salt Flats... He had an engine that was approaching 1400HP... The highest I'd ever heard of before this, was Bob Norwoods Doom II with >1000HP- 968 turbocharged engine... Milledge has broken 600HP for sure, but, for some reason, 400JME HP in a 2800lb 951 will outrun 600anybody else HP in a 2500lb 930, so, go figure... I'd love to know how fast that Doom II would have gone w/the right gears though... For that matter, if Gomes really can build one with >1400HP, how fast will IT hit....?
Several people have mentioned higher speeds for 951's from way back when- Tommye- you just said that about 180mph... I've never seen ANY 951 tested above 162 & that was Turbo S- the only listing I've seen for factory 951 that want above this was one of the original ads- had the 944GTP beside the street 951- listed HP @ 405HP & 2040lbs & top speed of 175+mph IIRC... Either way, were there any tests that showed higher? Would have to be modded b/c stock redline w/stock gearing w/stock RD givces 167mph, so, I'm just wondering about all this....
Either way, it's cool to see higher speeed 951's like Konstatin's doing well aerodynamically... Scott Gomes claims his personal 951 will hit >205mph... he does it w/high reves though- I think he's >8000rpms... He's working on one to break 240mph or maybe 250mph, right now- planning to hit the Great Salt Flats... He had an engine that was approaching 1400HP... The highest I'd ever heard of before this, was Bob Norwoods Doom II with >1000HP- 968 turbocharged engine... Milledge has broken 600HP for sure, but, for some reason, 400JME HP in a 2800lb 951 will outrun 600anybody else HP in a 2500lb 930, so, go figure... I'd love to know how fast that Doom II would have gone w/the right gears though... For that matter, if Gomes really can build one with >1400HP, how fast will IT hit....?
09-29-2005, 03:48 AM
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Awesome! My top speed was 194 mph as well. I run 165/35/18 with stock tranny and recalibrated 220 mph speedo from North Hollywood Speedo Shop. My tach is stock and said 6800-6900 rpm. Couldn't look too long at it. Great job Konstantin. I have huge horsepower to do that. How much hp do you have and where can I get that rear wing?
09-29-2005, 07:03 AM
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You see, here's the prob w/these factory speedos- Defastest's car is obviously awesome... So is your's Konstantin.... I have no doubts, that with the power you're both making, that you would be capable of ~195 w/the right gearing, RD, etc, assuming the HP is made at the right rpm... But, the RD on a 265/35/18 is 25.30, a bit taller than 285/30/18. At 7000rpms, even w/that RD, the speed would be ~187mph (299kmh), 6900 would give ~184mph (294kmh), & 6800 would give ~182mph (291.2kmh). Again, this is not to say that EITHER of your cars could not achieve the claimed speeds... I mean, who knows...? the speeds COULD be right- mabe the TACHS are off....? Anything's possible...
Gauges are innacurate- gears are not... they are mathematical #'s- RD is too... a tire HAS to do an EXACT # of rotations during a certain amount of time to be carrying a car a certain speed & that's all there is to it... I've often agued this point, that these Porsches, Bimmers, Audis, etc, can possibly be off... I've heard people say that they are such great cars that there speedos HAVE to be right... It's just not true... Perfect example- a C&D (or R&T) from years ago, compared an NSX, Viper GTSR, &, 993TTS... Ran each car two directions- they showed the actual speeds AND the indicated (speedometer) speeds. ALL THREE were off... The NSX was the closest, then the Viper, &, BY FAR the worst, was the $150K 993TTS- it cost more than the other two TOGETHER... It wasn't even consistent! It's actual speed one way was ~188 & the indicated was ~200, while it's other direction showed ~192, but, it's indicated was~212!!! Other examples are the notoriously optimistic Bimmers... ALL of them... I've had more trrouble w/Bimmer owners than any other.,.. Funny too, b/c C&D has ALWAYS said they are way off, &, C&D LOVES their BMW's...
Gauges are innacurate- gears are not... they are mathematical #'s- RD is too... a tire HAS to do an EXACT # of rotations during a certain amount of time to be carrying a car a certain speed & that's all there is to it... I've often agued this point, that these Porsches, Bimmers, Audis, etc, can possibly be off... I've heard people say that they are such great cars that there speedos HAVE to be right... It's just not true... Perfect example- a C&D (or R&T) from years ago, compared an NSX, Viper GTSR, &, 993TTS... Ran each car two directions- they showed the actual speeds AND the indicated (speedometer) speeds. ALL THREE were off... The NSX was the closest, then the Viper, &, BY FAR the worst, was the $150K 993TTS- it cost more than the other two TOGETHER... It wasn't even consistent! It's actual speed one way was ~188 & the indicated was ~200, while it's other direction showed ~192, but, it's indicated was~212!!! Other examples are the notoriously optimistic Bimmers... ALL of them... I've had more trrouble w/Bimmer owners than any other.,.. Funny too, b/c C&D has ALWAYS said they are way off, &, C&D LOVES their BMW's...
09-29-2005, 07:25 AM
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Konstantin- I love the site... just looked over it- there is some great stuff in some of those links... thanks... But, where is the listing of gears for the 968 turbo? I couldn't find it... I may have overlooked it somehow... let me know if you would....
thanks
thanks
09-29-2005, 06:01 PM
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just click the second Link "968 Turbo S/RS" and scroll down it is there ;-)
Yes speedos can be off
@DFASTEST951 the wing is an original 968 Turbo and not cheap sent me PM
a small secret: my 5th is from theS2. not done by me it was factory since the car was a prototype build in 1984. It has Cat converter and was teh test car for teh US market. No oil cooler (/now it has a Huge one 30% of the water cooler)
Konstantin
Yes speedos can be off
@DFASTEST951 the wing is an original 968 Turbo and not cheap sent me PM
a small secret: my 5th is from theS2. not done by me it was factory since the car was a prototype build in 1984. It has Cat converter and was teh test car for teh US market. No oil cooler (/now it has a Huge one 30% of the water cooler)
Konstantin
