ehall

as a topic.
I'm getting ready to change pads/fluid/check rotors. How do these work?
p/s I'll be using motive pressure bleeder. Any extra/hidden tips?


product here: http://www.paragon-products.com/product_p/sb_1010s.htm


TIA

Evan70

Yes, I have them on all my cars and love them. I've used them on every car I've had in the past 7 years, and have never once had a problem with them. I also have a Motive Power Bleeder, and I much prefer the speedbleeders instead. They have a check ball in them that prevents reverse flow (of air or fluid) back into the system. Basically you loosen them 1/4 turn, pump the brake pedal and fluid/air will only be allowed to flow out. The really nice thing, is that depending on your wheels you can actually bleed the brakes with the car on the ground and wheels still on.

ehall

wow. That's great, and the bleeders are comparatively cheap.
Anyone else?

Thanks Evan. Nice new wheels.

Sam Lin

I've come to the opposite conclusion as Evan - I have them on 2 cars and another 8 on the shelf, but prefer to use the Motive Power Bleeder with normal bleeders. The Speedbleeders require a special sealant on the threads, and after a couple bleeds it wears off enough to allow air back around the threads when the pedal is released (because you still have to pump the pedal with them). Since you need to crack them and go hop in the car to pump for each corner, bleeding takes longer with them. With the Motive you hook it up once and then go around cracking valves. They're also expensive - on dual-bleeder calipers, that's 8 bleeders at something like 6 dollars apiece. That means for what it costs to equip one car with them, you can just buy the Motive, which works on all your cars.

Sam

Evan70

Sam, I've never had this problem happen to me, and I've used them extensively. Probably 20+ bleeds on several of the cars I've had them on. Not saying it can't happen, but maybe you got a bad set?

The main problems I have with the Power bleeder is that you have to fab up a custom resevoir cap for each car to get a good seal.

Sam Lin

I have 20 individual SpeedBleeders on cars now and own 28 of them, so it's not likely a bad set or bad batch (they weren't all purchased at the same time) - give them a track season (2 bleeds a weekend at least and more likely 2 bleeds a day) and the sealant needs refreshing - that's why SpeedBleeder sells bottles of sealant and mentions it in their instructions. 20+ bleeds I get to in 3 months between track and autoX, my first set of SpeedBleeders is probably up at 150 bleeds or so now.

For custom reservoir caps, I buy a spare reservoir cap for each different car and bolt a quick disconnect air valve to it. Then I just plug my Motive into whichever I happen to be bleeding. Still cheaper than buying SpeedBleeders for each car as reservoir caps are around $10 and fittings another $1.

Sam

z3bra

Sam, couldn't you just carefully use teflon tape on the threads? I know brake fluid doesn't work well with most sealing materials except EPDM or whatever it is they normally use (being lazy about looking it up right now), but teflon is not affected by glycol based brake fluid or much of anything else.

Couldn't you use them with the Motive and get the best of both worlds? Pump the Motive up once and then go around in order knowing they shouldn't be sucking any air back in? Admittedly, that's not likely with the system pressurized higher than atmospheric pressure.

Incidentally, what's a good operating pressure for the Motive on our cars? I haven't used mine yet but will be very soon.

Sam Lin

Teflon tape would probably work, but I got a bottle of their sealant way back when and haven't run out. Hell, I have a huge tube of ARP thread sealant that looks very similar.
http://www.speedbleeder.com/install.htm

Problem with the Motive/SB combo is you still need to pump the pedal since Motive pressure isn't enough to move the SB valve (it's a pretty beefy spring-load). Then, on pedal return, if there's some restriction in the system and you let it return quickly, it's possible to drop system pressure below ambient, even with the Motive hooked up. With standard bleeders and a Motive creating positive pressure, there's no possible way for air to get into the system (unless you let the reservoir run dry).

I run the Motive at 15-20psi, have safely done 30 without blowing the reservoir off the M/C or the lid off the M/C, but it looked like it wanted to blow.

Sam

David Floyd

I like the Motive so much, that my Speed bleeders are still in the package.

z3bra

Cool, thanks. I didn't realize the spring pressure in the SBs was that high. Oh well got the motive anyway which sounds better. So do you just use a hose clamp on the nipple you put through the spare brake fluid cap or is it actually using an air hose quick disconnect? Thinking of doing the same so I can use it on the wife's POS too. (Thankfully at least Hawk HPS pads are available for it and work better than the crap that was on it when we bought it). No it's not the VW Passat I'm talking about, it's much worse and shall remain unnamed so as not to pollute rennlist with its mere mention.

Sam Lin

It's an actual air hose QD.

Sam

tifosiman

My speedbleeders leaked. I bought 8, and 2 out of eight kept leaking after they were tight. Paragon replaced 2 for free (good guys!). But the next time I had to bleed the brakes, 2 more kept leaking after they were fully tight. Got rid of them. Junk. Get a motive power bleeder and be done with it.

eclou

Speed bleeders have been teh suck in my humble experience. Always leak. And IIRC brake fluid eats tape.

ehall

thanks for the replies. I have a Motive, so I'll use that, and do it the old fashioned way.

User 41221

I'll throw my opinion on the side of the Motive Powerbleeder, too. My speedbleeders leaked after the first time I used them, so I pitched them and never looked back. Plus, when I am bleeding the brakes myself, I prefer to pump the Motive up and work the bleeders, rather than getting in the car repeatedly.

Regards,