someone teach me to read porsche wiring diagrams
05-15-2005, 01:13 PM
#1
Three Wheelin'
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someone teach me to read porsche wiring diagrams
(please)
I circled a few of the things I dont get in red. What are those? Any other tips?
TIA
I circled a few of the things I dont get in red. What are those? Any other tips?
TIA
05-15-2005, 01:35 PM
#2
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Those are cross-references to other portions of the "map". It's like the old game battleship -- letter from left to right, numbers from top to bottom. The diamonds point you to the spot on the map where that connection continues. Sometimes the connection is close by, and sometimes it is on a different page of the map altogether. The BL/RT wire from the idle positioner goes into that diamond with B43 in it. So, you go to B43 on the map and look from a BL/RT wire coming out of a diamond with B48 in it. It's hard to explain, but easy once you get it.
05-15-2005, 02:07 PM
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Hey, Mark,
Those are known as "off-page connectors"... used a lot in software flowcharts, and, in this case, to connections on another page. Like Tom says, use the notations on the top and sides of each diagram, and look for the corresponding hookup on the receiving end...
Kind of like a wormhole to another wiring galaxy....
gb
Those are known as "off-page connectors"... used a lot in software flowcharts, and, in this case, to connections on another page. Like Tom says, use the notations on the top and sides of each diagram, and look for the corresponding hookup on the receiving end...
Kind of like a wormhole to another wiring galaxy....
gb
05-17-2005, 01:56 AM
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FWIW, I'm redoing the wiring diagrams in Visio (or possibly something a bit spiffier like Catia). I'm only doing em for my 1986 model and the US spec ones at that, but I'll make em available when I'm done. Ideally, I'm going to try to color code the wires themselves to the actual colors although doing that in visio is a pain in the *** (for the wires more than 1 color anyway, solid colors certainly aren't an issue) and it does sort of go against schematic drawing convention to do so.
I'm also going to size them for A0 paper (which is 44x34 or so) so they could hypothetically be hung on the wall if you want to get them printed full size somewhere.
I'll probably just release them as PDFs or something to that effect when I finish but if nothing else they will at least have clean lines and the people out there who don't have a factory book will have access to good schematics.
I'm not opposed to doing them for other years, but given the time involved to do them, it may require some persuasion or contributions toward me "I want a TIG welder" fund.
BTW the main reason they're time consuming is having to recreate most of the stencils in Visio for switches etc.
If anyone has any input on features they'd like to see in the redone ones, let me know and I'll see if I can. I'm going to try and get them done this summer while I'm not as busy outside work.
BTW if anyone knows of something better to draw them with and can point me in the right direction, I'm open to suggestions, Visio's not bad but it's been dumbed down a little since Microsoft bought them and is somewhat of a compromise in that use. I'm not having much luck finding any other Electric oriented CAD software that's downloadable. I know about Autocad Electric, but I absolutely despise using Autocad. Were it not for existing market share I personally think that autocad would be out of business in a heartbeat since the software is so wonderfully *easy* to start using. Most other EDA cad software seems to be oriented toward electronic schematics rather than wiring diagrams.
I'm also going to size them for A0 paper (which is 44x34 or so) so they could hypothetically be hung on the wall if you want to get them printed full size somewhere.
I'll probably just release them as PDFs or something to that effect when I finish but if nothing else they will at least have clean lines and the people out there who don't have a factory book will have access to good schematics.
I'm not opposed to doing them for other years, but given the time involved to do them, it may require some persuasion or contributions toward me "I want a TIG welder" fund.
BTW the main reason they're time consuming is having to recreate most of the stencils in Visio for switches etc.
If anyone has any input on features they'd like to see in the redone ones, let me know and I'll see if I can. I'm going to try and get them done this summer while I'm not as busy outside work.
BTW if anyone knows of something better to draw them with and can point me in the right direction, I'm open to suggestions, Visio's not bad but it's been dumbed down a little since Microsoft bought them and is somewhat of a compromise in that use. I'm not having much luck finding any other Electric oriented CAD software that's downloadable. I know about Autocad Electric, but I absolutely despise using Autocad. Were it not for existing market share I personally think that autocad would be out of business in a heartbeat since the software is so wonderfully *easy* to start using. Most other EDA cad software seems to be oriented toward electronic schematics rather than wiring diagrams.
05-17-2005, 01:21 PM
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"Those are known as "off-page connectors"... "
Obviously, they don't *always* go off-page.
And, funny, 2 of the connectors marked B50 are already in the B50 grid and a third is right next to it. I guess they are all connected, but it would have been simpler to simply draw a line between them, rather than using the diamonds.
Obviously, they don't *always* go off-page.
And, funny, 2 of the connectors marked B50 are already in the B50 grid and a third is right next to it. I guess they are all connected, but it would have been simpler to simply draw a line between them, rather than using the diamonds.
05-18-2005, 12:42 AM
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Originally Posted by mark944turbo
Thanks everyone.
"toward me "I want a TIG welder" fund."
Haha, I have the same fund. I am considering the Miller syncrowave 250 dx... You?
"toward me "I want a TIG welder" fund."
Haha, I have the same fund. I am considering the Miller syncrowave 250 dx... You?
Ooops scratch that Maxstars are the DC only ones, I was thinking the smaller Dynasty ones like the 200 series.
Last edited by z3bra; 05-18-2005 at 12:58 AM.
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05-18-2005, 01:52 AM
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The numbers on their sides are just off-page connectors grouped -- that ground wire has connections at each of those cross-reference points. The numbers before the wire colors are the size of the wires, I believe.
05-18-2005, 02:08 AM
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The block of numbers represents connection points. For example, If you look on the one with say the tail/head/marker lights, the big box in the middle represents the fusebox ("central electric"). Each connection to that has a connection point labled.
The #'s before the color are the size of the wire in square millimeters. Since it's normal when writing in German to express decimals in numbers with a comma, a 1,0 wire in the diagram has a 1.0 mm^2 cross section. Just take the square root of whatever size is listed there for the diameter of the conductor. If you're replacing a piece, match it up to the closet AWG size, but round up to the next biggest size (lower number), it's always better to have a bit extra cross section than not quite enough.
As a bit of trivia, the MP I through MP X for the grounding points is derived from the German term for ground point which is "massepunkte." Also, when looking at the abbreviations for colors keep in mind they're abbreviations for the names of the colors in German not English. (Apparently the translation of the wiring diagrams stopped with names for the items and didn't address the wire colors themselves, of course there's also the infamous "clove box" on the USA lighting diagram (second diagram for 1986 models). I guess that makes the car smell like a spiced ham or something.
RT = rot (red)
SW = schwarz (black)
WS = weisse (white)
GE = gelb (yellow)
GN = grun (green)
GR = grau (gray)
BR = braun (brown)
BL = blau (blue)
Ones I'm not positive on off the top of my head (sorry, it's been 15+ years since I took a German class)
OR = orange
VI = violetta (violet)
Example: 36,0 RT/SW would be a 6mm diameter wire that is red with a black stripe.
(Primary/Stripe) is how striped wires are represented.
The one that always screws me up is mistaking GR for green when it's actually gray. (Probably quite hellish for the colorblind I'd imagine, at least I can look at it and realize I was a bonehead).
The #'s before the color are the size of the wire in square millimeters. Since it's normal when writing in German to express decimals in numbers with a comma, a 1,0 wire in the diagram has a 1.0 mm^2 cross section. Just take the square root of whatever size is listed there for the diameter of the conductor. If you're replacing a piece, match it up to the closet AWG size, but round up to the next biggest size (lower number), it's always better to have a bit extra cross section than not quite enough.
As a bit of trivia, the MP I through MP X for the grounding points is derived from the German term for ground point which is "massepunkte." Also, when looking at the abbreviations for colors keep in mind they're abbreviations for the names of the colors in German not English. (Apparently the translation of the wiring diagrams stopped with names for the items and didn't address the wire colors themselves, of course there's also the infamous "clove box" on the USA lighting diagram (second diagram for 1986 models). I guess that makes the car smell like a spiced ham or something.
RT = rot (red)
SW = schwarz (black)
WS = weisse (white)
GE = gelb (yellow)
GN = grun (green)
GR = grau (gray)
BR = braun (brown)
BL = blau (blue)
Ones I'm not positive on off the top of my head (sorry, it's been 15+ years since I took a German class)
OR = orange
VI = violetta (violet)
Example: 36,0 RT/SW would be a 6mm diameter wire that is red with a black stripe.
(Primary/Stripe) is how striped wires are represented.
The one that always screws me up is mistaking GR for green when it's actually gray. (Probably quite hellish for the colorblind I'd imagine, at least I can look at it and realize I was a bonehead).
05-18-2005, 03:31 AM
#11
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Originally Posted by z3bra
The block of numbers represents connection points. For example, If you look on the one with say the tail/head/marker lights, the big box in the middle represents the fusebox ("central electric"). Each connection to that has a connection point labled.
The #'s before the color are the size of the wire in square millimeters. Since it's normal when writing in German to express decimals in numbers with a comma, a 1,0 wire in the diagram has a 1.0 mm^2 cross section. Just take the square root of whatever size is listed there for the diameter of the conductor. If you're replacing a piece, match it up to the closet AWG size, but round up to the next biggest size (lower number), it's always better to have a bit extra cross section than not quite enough.
As a bit of trivia, the MP I through MP X for the grounding points is derived from the German term for ground point which is "massepunkte." Also, when looking at the abbreviations for colors keep in mind they're abbreviations for the names of the colors in German not English. (Apparently the translation of the wiring diagrams stopped with names for the items and didn't address the wire colors themselves, of course there's also the infamous "clove box" on the USA lighting diagram (second diagram for 1986 models). I guess that makes the car smell like a spiced ham or something.
RT = rot (red)
SW = schwarz (black)
WS = weisse (white)
GE = gelb (yellow)
GN = grun (green)
GR = grau (gray)
BR = braun (brown)
BL = blau (blue)
Ones I'm not positive on off the top of my head (sorry, it's been 15+ years since I took a German class)
OR = orange
VI = violetta (violet)
Example: 36,0 RT/SW would be a 6mm diameter wire that is red with a black stripe.
(Primary/Stripe) is how striped wires are represented.
The one that always screws me up is mistaking GR for green when it's actually gray. (Probably quite hellish for the colorblind I'd imagine, at least I can look at it and realize I was a bonehead).
The #'s before the color are the size of the wire in square millimeters. Since it's normal when writing in German to express decimals in numbers with a comma, a 1,0 wire in the diagram has a 1.0 mm^2 cross section. Just take the square root of whatever size is listed there for the diameter of the conductor. If you're replacing a piece, match it up to the closet AWG size, but round up to the next biggest size (lower number), it's always better to have a bit extra cross section than not quite enough.
As a bit of trivia, the MP I through MP X for the grounding points is derived from the German term for ground point which is "massepunkte." Also, when looking at the abbreviations for colors keep in mind they're abbreviations for the names of the colors in German not English. (Apparently the translation of the wiring diagrams stopped with names for the items and didn't address the wire colors themselves, of course there's also the infamous "clove box" on the USA lighting diagram (second diagram for 1986 models). I guess that makes the car smell like a spiced ham or something.
RT = rot (red)
SW = schwarz (black)
WS = weisse (white)
GE = gelb (yellow)
GN = grun (green)
GR = grau (gray)
BR = braun (brown)
BL = blau (blue)
Ones I'm not positive on off the top of my head (sorry, it's been 15+ years since I took a German class)
OR = orange
VI = violetta (violet)
Example: 36,0 RT/SW would be a 6mm diameter wire that is red with a black stripe.
(Primary/Stripe) is how striped wires are represented.
The one that always screws me up is mistaking GR for green when it's actually gray. (Probably quite hellish for the colorblind I'd imagine, at least I can look at it and realize I was a bonehead).
05-18-2005, 04:06 AM
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I'm not sure to be honest, I measured one of my old battery cables based on that and it seemed like it was just squared even though the innaccuracy of that sort of measurment system was surprising to me.
According to these guys, http://www.powerstream.com/Wire_Size.htm the number of the gauge/10 is the diameter of the wire in mm. This is metric wire gauges though vs an actual measurement size of the diameter so I don't think it's applicable.
According to these guys, http://www.rbeelectronics.com/wtable.htm it's mm^2.
According to these guys, http://www.mogami.com/e/cad/wire-gauge.html it's diameter of solid wire in mm or cross-sectional area of stranded wire in mm^2 (square mm).
So for the 60,0 listed on the sheet for the main negative battery cable I get 8.74mm for the diameter which looks about right vs 7.74 which also isn't terribly far off. I think I prefer the last of the three sources I listed's explanation though. I'm going to have to amend the earlier stand. I think your formula is probably the correct one. So r=(value listed/pi)^.5 and of course 2r=d. From a practical standpoint using this method, you're erring on the side of caution and overdoing it rather than putting wire insufficient for the job in place at the cost of maybe a little bit more weight vs increased likelyhood of an electrical fire, short, or just an inconvenience. I'd probably side with the extra weight as the better of the two options.
According to these guys, http://www.powerstream.com/Wire_Size.htm the number of the gauge/10 is the diameter of the wire in mm. This is metric wire gauges though vs an actual measurement size of the diameter so I don't think it's applicable.
According to these guys, http://www.rbeelectronics.com/wtable.htm it's mm^2.
According to these guys, http://www.mogami.com/e/cad/wire-gauge.html it's diameter of solid wire in mm or cross-sectional area of stranded wire in mm^2 (square mm).
So for the 60,0 listed on the sheet for the main negative battery cable I get 8.74mm for the diameter which looks about right vs 7.74 which also isn't terribly far off. I think I prefer the last of the three sources I listed's explanation though. I'm going to have to amend the earlier stand. I think your formula is probably the correct one. So r=(value listed/pi)^.5 and of course 2r=d. From a practical standpoint using this method, you're erring on the side of caution and overdoing it rather than putting wire insufficient for the job in place at the cost of maybe a little bit more weight vs increased likelyhood of an electrical fire, short, or just an inconvenience. I'd probably side with the extra weight as the better of the two options.
05-18-2005, 04:12 AM
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Here's a good table of AWG equivalents to metric should you be replacing things.
http://www.dolphinsci.com/vw/wires.html
http://www.dolphinsci.com/vw/wires.html
