New Sleeves (MID) are finaly here
02-01-2005, 09:22 AM
#62
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If you are talking about the sleeves I very much doubt that they are in aluminium.
They don't look like aluminium and it would not make much sense to bore out the existing cylinders and use aluminium sleeves.
They don't look like aluminium and it would not make much sense to bore out the existing cylinders and use aluminium sleeves.
02-02-2005, 09:12 AM
#63
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Here are some pictures of the sleeves installed. The block was still 300 degrees when I took the pics…So I guess this is ‘hot of the press’!
Still needs to be cleaned up a bit and the final cylinder boring done but you guys get the idea. Very nice product, I can’t wait for the next couple of 3.0 sets to arrive!
Now I do want the snow to go away!!
If you didn’t see it there is a cross post in the “Big Bore” thread with some machining pics.
Chris White
Still needs to be cleaned up a bit and the final cylinder boring done but you guys get the idea. Very nice product, I can’t wait for the next couple of 3.0 sets to arrive!
Now I do want the snow to go away!!
If you didn’t see it there is a cross post in the “Big Bore” thread with some machining pics.
Chris White
02-02-2005, 10:07 AM
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The picture is a 2.5 with the unfinished ID – 101.5mm. This one will be 104mm when done.
The 3.0 will have the same unfinished ID (I added a lot of input to Darton on this – I want to be able to make a 2.6 out of a 3.0 block – GT3 limits!!)
Chris White
PS - if you looked at the front right cooling passage the 2.5 vs 3.0 would be noticeable!
The 3.0 will have the same unfinished ID (I added a lot of input to Darton on this – I want to be able to make a 2.6 out of a 3.0 block – GT3 limits!!)
Chris White
PS - if you looked at the front right cooling passage the 2.5 vs 3.0 would be noticeable!
02-02-2005, 10:18 AM
#67
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In theory you don't have to mill the top, the sleeve installation is a precision milling job - that being said - I will check it out once the block has cooled!
It does look similar to Kevin’s project. Darton makes some similar sleeves for the chevy folks – Kevin may have been fitting those to a 944 block (just guessing). The MID concept has been in use for Chevy and Honda for a while and those sleeves look very similar to the 944 sleeves.
It does look similar to Kevin’s project. Darton makes some similar sleeves for the chevy folks – Kevin may have been fitting those to a 944 block (just guessing). The MID concept has been in use for Chevy and Honda for a while and those sleeves look very similar to the 944 sleeves.
02-02-2005, 10:55 AM
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What are the advantages of sleeving versus bore / honing? AFAIK the alusil will last a lot longer than steel.
What prevents dissimilar metal action between the steel and the aluminum in the engine - especially under the temperatures we're talking about here and the presence of potential catylists (coolant, oil, etc.)
If they fail / become elliptical at some point, can you simply pop 'em out and put new ones in?
What prevents dissimilar metal action between the steel and the aluminum in the engine - especially under the temperatures we're talking about here and the presence of potential catylists (coolant, oil, etc.)
If they fail / become elliptical at some point, can you simply pop 'em out and put new ones in?
02-02-2005, 11:03 AM
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Hi Chris,
The reason why I'm asking about the milling is because when
I was diying the ceramic coating on my exhaust system &
turbine housing, I discovered that after baking which is also
at 300 degrees things did not fit as well as before which
leads me to suspect the metal will not return to it's original
specs after cooling down & I think it would be more obvious
on the block since you have two differing material. please let
us know about this. BTW, did you read my pm to you ?
The reason why I'm asking about the milling is because when
I was diying the ceramic coating on my exhaust system &
turbine housing, I discovered that after baking which is also
at 300 degrees things did not fit as well as before which
leads me to suspect the metal will not return to it's original
specs after cooling down & I think it would be more obvious
on the block since you have two differing material. please let
us know about this. BTW, did you read my pm to you ?
02-02-2005, 12:05 PM
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A couple of answers –
Jeff - Boring vs sleeving – Alusil has great wear properties for ring wear but lousy properties for resisting scoring by contaminates.
You already have several iron components in the cooling system – the sleeves won’t be the first. You do need to run a decent antifreeze and that’s about it.
Yes, if you have some sort of catastrophic failure or even very long term wear you can replace the sleeves with no additional machining. You can do it in your own garage – pop’em out and in as you say! The replacement pistons – even though they are custom made – are half the price of the new stock ones.
J – only the block was heated (300f) and yes – things do change dimensions when heated and cooled. As with any machining operation – check dimension early and often! Keep in mind that the block has been heat cycled for the last 15 years or so – it should be fairly stable by now. New parts can be a different story.
I will check the PM – I think I responded!
Tomas – 300f. 300c would be a little too hot!! O-rings would not like that much.
Chris White
Jeff - Boring vs sleeving – Alusil has great wear properties for ring wear but lousy properties for resisting scoring by contaminates.
You already have several iron components in the cooling system – the sleeves won’t be the first. You do need to run a decent antifreeze and that’s about it.
Yes, if you have some sort of catastrophic failure or even very long term wear you can replace the sleeves with no additional machining. You can do it in your own garage – pop’em out and in as you say! The replacement pistons – even though they are custom made – are half the price of the new stock ones.
J – only the block was heated (300f) and yes – things do change dimensions when heated and cooled. As with any machining operation – check dimension early and often! Keep in mind that the block has been heat cycled for the last 15 years or so – it should be fairly stable by now. New parts can be a different story.
I will check the PM – I think I responded!
Tomas – 300f. 300c would be a little too hot!! O-rings would not like that much.
Chris White
02-02-2005, 04:09 PM
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Interesting idea! This might be what we need to make our blocks / engines "immortal" if you know what I mean - even if the cylinders get scored or out-of-round, this offers a terrific solution!
02-02-2005, 07:39 PM
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Originally Posted by BoostGuy951
Looking good Chris! I really can't wait to get this bad boy in the car. 944 Fest Dyno Competition here I come! 
You're all going down! 
You're all going down! 