build my own boost controller...
01-09-2005, 05:30 PM
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build my own boost controller...
I'm tired of expensive EBCs and unreliable MBCs...I can't afford a $400 venture and my boost drops 4psi with the reliaboost installed... 
I think the cycle valve system in the car should be the way to go (all the electronic boost controllers I've seen use a stepper motor, why not use the one that came with the car?) PLUS, you don't bleed off measured air, it goes back into the turbo.
I'm open to suggestion here (on a budget of course)
I was thinking of programming my own dsp board to control the CV...an electronic pressure sensor in-line with the KLR pressure line with a simple program that sends 12v to the CV to open or close depending on absolute pressure...is that so hard? Essentially does the same thing the original KLR unit does, but reprogrammed for my boost limit.
I think the cycle valve system in the car should be the way to go (all the electronic boost controllers I've seen use a stepper motor, why not use the one that came with the car?) PLUS, you don't bleed off measured air, it goes back into the turbo.
I'm open to suggestion here (on a budget of course)
I was thinking of programming my own dsp board to control the CV...an electronic pressure sensor in-line with the KLR pressure line with a simple program that sends 12v to the CV to open or close depending on absolute pressure...is that so hard? Essentially does the same thing the original KLR unit does, but reprogrammed for my boost limit.
01-09-2005, 07:38 PM
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i had thought of that a while back...
but ended up making a MBC that's way reliable, and very adjustable (boost spike, creep, overall... and all individually)... cost ~US$75
look on autospeed.net... the audi boost controller (or boost machine, forget what they call it). they've got some home-fashioned EBC articles, too
myself, i didnt like the CV, so it wasnt an issue to ditch it... and i really wanted a bunch of boost as low in the RPMs as i could get. with this setup, ive gotta adjust that down a bit, or i get silly wheelspin the second it hits 3Krpm at anything over 2/3 throttle. goes from like 4psi to 14psi in a second. great fun, though. turned down a bit, it's very linear. great adjustability.
But, programming your own board would be pretty damn cool....
but ended up making a MBC that's way reliable, and very adjustable (boost spike, creep, overall... and all individually)... cost ~US$75
look on autospeed.net... the audi boost controller (or boost machine, forget what they call it). they've got some home-fashioned EBC articles, too
myself, i didnt like the CV, so it wasnt an issue to ditch it... and i really wanted a bunch of boost as low in the RPMs as i could get. with this setup, ive gotta adjust that down a bit, or i get silly wheelspin the second it hits 3Krpm at anything over 2/3 throttle. goes from like 4psi to 14psi in a second. great fun, though. turned down a bit, it's very linear. great adjustability.
But, programming your own board would be pretty damn cool....
01-10-2005, 07:08 PM
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can't seem to access autospeed.net (domain is for sale?). Did you mean autospeed.com?
I'm interested in your MBC...is it anything better than a spring and ball-bearing setup like the reliaboost?
I'd be interested in perhaps machining seperate chambers for sensing and flow (so that the sensor isn't affected by flow) in a "manual" setup as an alternative to going electronic with the CV.
I'm interested in your MBC...is it anything better than a spring and ball-bearing setup like the reliaboost?
I'd be interested in perhaps machining seperate chambers for sensing and flow (so that the sensor isn't affected by flow) in a "manual" setup as an alternative to going electronic with the CV.
01-10-2005, 07:26 PM
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damn, autospeed.com is right... sorry 'bout that.
part one of the article: http://www.autospeed.com/A_0670/cms/article.html
part two: http://www.autospeed.com/cms/A_0685/article.html
think the articles are subscription-only... if so, i can email 'em to you.
mine is very similar, but have been making some changes to it.
i had a reliaboost on it for about a week... was pretty unhappy with it. boost took forever to build, and was far too linear for my tastes. the stock CV, with a restricter in the line was better for me...
now bypassed all together with this manual controller.
the way it works is like this:
two valves in-line...
first is an adjustable pressure relief valve, which will not let ANY pressure by it until it has reached the point you set. mine doesnt even let anything go past until like 10psi... so NOTHING gets to the wastegate until then.
second is an adjustable pressure regulator. so i can adjust the overall pressure going to the wastegate, after the pressure relief valve starts feeding pressure.
so far, it has been pretty reliable and consistant...
part one of the article: http://www.autospeed.com/A_0670/cms/article.html
part two: http://www.autospeed.com/cms/A_0685/article.html
think the articles are subscription-only... if so, i can email 'em to you.
mine is very similar, but have been making some changes to it.
i had a reliaboost on it for about a week... was pretty unhappy with it. boost took forever to build, and was far too linear for my tastes. the stock CV, with a restricter in the line was better for me...
now bypassed all together with this manual controller.
the way it works is like this:
two valves in-line...
first is an adjustable pressure relief valve, which will not let ANY pressure by it until it has reached the point you set. mine doesnt even let anything go past until like 10psi... so NOTHING gets to the wastegate until then.
second is an adjustable pressure regulator. so i can adjust the overall pressure going to the wastegate, after the pressure relief valve starts feeding pressure.
so far, it has been pretty reliable and consistant...
01-10-2005, 07:38 PM
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dhallilama:
Gonna offer anymore details?? How long have you been running that controler??
If it works like you say with no spikes, might be lot of people here interested in buying them from you.
Gonna offer anymore details?? How long have you been running that controler??
If it works like you say with no spikes, might be lot of people here interested in buying them from you.
01-10-2005, 07:43 PM
#7
Three Wheelin'
Yea, I am considering buying a solenoid and making my own boost control as well. Right now I just use a bike pump to apply different pressures to the other side of my dual port wastegate, this controls when the wastegate opens but nothing after that. I would need a custom variable wound spring that fits my application after that...
EBC is really the only way to go. With MBC, you can control when the wastegate opens perfectly, but after that you are sacrificing something. You need the wastegate to be open different precise amounts for a perfect boost curve, and there is no way to get this kind of control from a ball and spring. That cv thing sounds awesome to me, you could use it in conjunction with a dual port wastegate w a constant pressure being pumped to one side manually and have $500 boost control. Let me know if you ever get it made!
EBC is really the only way to go. With MBC, you can control when the wastegate opens perfectly, but after that you are sacrificing something. You need the wastegate to be open different precise amounts for a perfect boost curve, and there is no way to get this kind of control from a ball and spring. That cv thing sounds awesome to me, you could use it in conjunction with a dual port wastegate w a constant pressure being pumped to one side manually and have $500 boost control. Let me know if you ever get it made!
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01-10-2005, 07:45 PM
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David: I REALLY DOUBT it's the turbo or wastegate.
The turbo is newly rebuilt. It gets plenty of boost (I accidentally pegged 20psi when setting the boost controller awhile ago).
I tested the wastegate like nobody's biznatch when I had it out. It is original but has shims in it per Danno's chips setup.
The boost controller I have used a small spring when I first got it, meant for 15psi. Now, I have a larger spring which holds 18psi and up. Problem is, I actually get better boost at high rpms with the smaller spring.
In essense, the small spring is screwed all the way down to get 15psi, and the big spring is hardly screwed down at all to limit at 18psi...I think the smaller spring has an easier time closing up the ball-bearing in the reliaboost after it has been opened. That, and it probably never opens up quite as far as the larger spring allows. THUS, the wastegate has an easier time closing back up at higher RPMs.
The turbo is newly rebuilt. It gets plenty of boost (I accidentally pegged 20psi when setting the boost controller awhile ago).
I tested the wastegate like nobody's biznatch when I had it out. It is original but has shims in it per Danno's chips setup.
The boost controller I have used a small spring when I first got it, meant for 15psi. Now, I have a larger spring which holds 18psi and up. Problem is, I actually get better boost at high rpms with the smaller spring.
In essense, the small spring is screwed all the way down to get 15psi, and the big spring is hardly screwed down at all to limit at 18psi...I think the smaller spring has an easier time closing up the ball-bearing in the reliaboost after it has been opened. That, and it probably never opens up quite as far as the larger spring allows. THUS, the wastegate has an easier time closing back up at higher RPMs.
01-10-2005, 08:14 PM
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Originally Posted by dhallilama
damn, autospeed.com is right... sorry 'bout that.
part one of the article: http://www.autospeed.com/A_0670/cms/article.html
part two: http://www.autospeed.com/cms/A_0685/article.html
think the articles are subscription-only... if so, i can email 'em to you.
mine is very similar, but have been making some changes to it.
part one of the article: http://www.autospeed.com/A_0670/cms/article.html
part two: http://www.autospeed.com/cms/A_0685/article.html
think the articles are subscription-only... if so, i can email 'em to you.
mine is very similar, but have been making some changes to it.
TELL US MORE: the articles are $4.50 apiece. The second one makes brief mention of the regulator part...but pls tell me where you sourced yours (part No.s and $$).
I guess the concept is simple enough: Nice regulator inline with a pressure relief valve. BUT, do you risk over-boost with that setup?
You let pressure by, but then essentially regulate how much the wastegate sees. Dunno the scenario, but I envision it is possible that you would need to open the wastegate more sometimes than others, meaning you want a variance in how much pressure you send to the diaphram...no?
01-10-2005, 08:29 PM
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i have the articles saved...
anyone who wants 'em, PM me your email addresses, and i'll send 'em over... (unless you're a copyright attorney
)
when i get back to my computer tonight, i'll post here the part #'s, sources and prices...
anyone who wants 'em, PM me your email addresses, and i'll send 'em over... (unless you're a copyright attorney
)when i get back to my computer tonight, i'll post here the part #'s, sources and prices...
01-10-2005, 09:57 PM
#12
Nordschleife Master
Originally Posted by Ryan B
David: I REALLY DOUBT it's the turbo or wastegate.
The turbo is newly rebuilt. It gets plenty of boost (I accidentally pegged 20psi when setting the boost controller awhile ago).
I tested the wastegate like nobody's biznatch when I had it out. It is original but has shims in it per Danno's chips setup.
The boost controller I have used a small spring when I first got it, meant for 15psi. Now, I have a larger spring which holds 18psi and up. Problem is, I actually get better boost at high rpms with the smaller spring.
In essense, the small spring is screwed all the way down to get 15psi, and the big spring is hardly screwed down at all to limit at 18psi...I think the smaller spring has an easier time closing up the ball-bearing in the reliaboost after it has been opened. That, and it probably never opens up quite as far as the larger spring allows. THUS, the wastegate has an easier time closing back up at higher RPMs.
The turbo is newly rebuilt. It gets plenty of boost (I accidentally pegged 20psi when setting the boost controller awhile ago).
I tested the wastegate like nobody's biznatch when I had it out. It is original but has shims in it per Danno's chips setup.
The boost controller I have used a small spring when I first got it, meant for 15psi. Now, I have a larger spring which holds 18psi and up. Problem is, I actually get better boost at high rpms with the smaller spring.
In essense, the small spring is screwed all the way down to get 15psi, and the big spring is hardly screwed down at all to limit at 18psi...I think the smaller spring has an easier time closing up the ball-bearing in the reliaboost after it has been opened. That, and it probably never opens up quite as far as the larger spring allows. THUS, the wastegate has an easier time closing back up at higher RPMs.
Pegging 20psi doesn't mean much about the turbo, if your stock turbo CAN'T hit 20psi then you have a problem. If your turbo can hold 20psi to redline and build full boost @ 3k in 3rd gear, then you've got some magic going on.
I look forward to reading about what you come up with, but you may be satisfied enough with a better wastegate.
Peckster, EBC = Electronic boost controller
01-11-2005, 01:41 AM
#13
Three Wheelin'
The article is free if you search for it on google. Sometimes that site is weird, you cant access the full articles from the internal links, but then you can just google them and google's links are full versions. Worked for me a few weeks ago anyway.
01-11-2005, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Peckster
What's an EBC?
If your not being a troll, EBC is Electronic Boost Controller..........
Maybe Laust should chime in since he is the 'mad scientist' around here
