cooz

looking for opinions from 944 trackers.....

balance, fun, cost effectiveness, streetability, etc etc

Cooz 95C2

Cyrus951

951 > 993

Eyal 951

thats not true. The 993 is a marvelous Porsche, better the 951 as well... however if you want a full purpose track car then we might have an argument here. the 951 is perfectly balanced, un like the pendulum you call a 911. HP is among the easiest and cheapest resource to extract from these cars, suspension offerings are broad... a well built race car, piloted by a capable driver, can and will hang with any 993 race car in the corners (could potentially be quicker, depending on setup), but Find yourself a straight on the track, and you can pull... Oh, dont froget braking, the 951 is superior in that aspect. As a race car, the 951 is much cheaper bought and built. Differences in performance will be notcied... depends on your taste as to which you will like better, bnnut the 951 can be built to hang wityh built 993s.
Reliability: lets put it this way... Can you turn a wrench, or can you pay someone to fix it for you... a lot....
Its an old high performance turbo charged machine, you cant expect it to be reliable. it will break things, often minor. as long as kept properly tuned and whatnot, HG and engine worries are minimal.... ask about the #2 rod bearing, thewre are some on here much more qualified to speak on that subject then I.
~Eyal

porshhhh951

If you go with a dry sump application that really takes care of the #2 rod bearing worry(for the most part anyway) get a baffle too.

basically what happens is when cornering hard the oil shifts in run's dry in that area....starving the bearing of it's needed lube. A baffle and dry sump would take care of that for the most part.

I have to tally agree with eyal. The 951 can be made just as fast and is alot cheeper to maintan. Not to mention easy to work on.

I say get the 951 and have fun. But, to eachthere own. 933's are sooooooo georgous

Our motor's are quite strong and I don't think you should worry about the hole #2 rod bearing issue. The only instances for the most part I have ever hered of it happening is during high cornering like I said on stock oil system's.

951Racer

I forget which stock class the 993 runs in, but it is completely non-competitive. That is why you almost never see them out there. Now the previous generation C2 is a very competitive E class car!

APKhaos

Tell us more about your objectives for 'track use'.

There is a huge field of possibility here, from DEs to Stock class racing to GT class racing.
Which is it?

Eric in Chicago

Having DE'ed and raced both a 993 and 944 S2 the 944 wins hands down! The 944 is cheaper to run (I know the S2 is not a turbo but the 993 was big $$$ to set up for the track and maintain) properly set up 951's were faster than my 993. The 944 is easy to drive and very stable. I am faster in the 944 by .5 secs at most tracks than I was in the 993. A turbo would be even faster. I spent around 80K on the 993 (car and upgrades) and a $25K S2 (race ready) is faster. The 993 is sexy but for a track tool the 944 is a no brainer

APKhaos

I faced a similar decision this time last year. My 911 was a perfect dual-use street track car, but it was time to get serious about racing.
The first thing to consider is whether you want a dedicated track car or a dual-use street/track car. Believe me, there is a world of difference between these two. You will be forced to make some serious compromises to the track aspects of the car in order to maintain streetability. Not the end of the earth, but something to consider.

Assuming a dedicated track car, is racing a possibility in your future? If so, you are probably better off planning to run in a stock class - whether PCA or NASA or SCCA. It is very easy to enhance a 951 to deliver 400HP, but that places you in PCA's GT3 class, where 600HP and 2000# is the norm. GT classes are an arms race, so be prepared for unlimited spending!

The 993 is a beautiful car, no question. It makes a great dual-use car for DE events. You will want to allow $10K + for suspension work, $4K for wheels & tires, plus seats, harnesses, roll bar/cage, fire system, etc. At the end of the day you will have a nice car, but totally uncompetitive for racing. properly prepared, a 993 can be on a par with a well prepared stock legal 951, but figure on spending a large chunk of change to get there. Don't underestimate the cost of preparing a car like this. I did it once, and when I finally sold the car it worked out that the new owner got the car for free and paid around 50c on the dollar for the upgrade & refresh work.

The 944S2/951/968 route is a clear winner IF you buy a fully prepared car. There are plenty of them out there, and you will be the beneficiary of the 50c on the dollar bargain when buying someone else's investment in upgrades and refresh work. These are fantastic cars on the track when properly set up. Neutral, fast, and very strong. Not as pretty as a 993, but so it goes.

I bought a fully prepared 951 with a history of PCA podium finishes for around $20K - paid to dollar for a nicely prepared car. It is a total blast to drive, and impresses many 911 guys who were initially shocked that I bought a FEWC.

With my first season a racing nearly done, there is no question that the 951 was the right choice. Suspect the same goes for an S2 or 968.

Steve Rea

If you do decide to get a more modified one, for whatever your reasons, I know that Duane Dement at Vision Motorsports was selling one that has a tremendous amount of development in it. I think you'd be getting it for even less than 50c on the dollar, however, as was mentioned above, I don't know what your competition might be like according to the specific class you will be in.

Regarding maintenance, also keep in mind the recurring cost of tires. There will be a big difference in your tire sizes and subsequent budget if you're running a stock class versus an open class.

Good luck with your decision. What a good problem to have eh?! 993 or 951...

Steve

Blueman33

You should also try the 993 board (if you haven't).

I love my 951, but I have always wanted a 993. In a perfect world, I would use the 951 dedicated to track and use the 993 for daily driver and an occassional track day.

My 951 has been extremely reliable. BTW

Steve Rea

ps - the Vision car for sale is a pure race car, so not a consideration as a street vehicle

s

cooz

steve...thanks for your replies...

i would consider a pure race car as well as a combo street/track car. how can I learn more about this Vision car?

cooz

M758

What are your objectives?

DE only? Heavy DE duty?

If you just plan 2-3 DE's per year then stay with the 993. If you plan to do ALOT of track days then a "track car" (can be street driven or trailered) is really the better choice. In that case the biggest advantage the 951 has going for it is low cost. If you stuff the car it will cost you much less than the 993. Realize the 2-3 days per yer and your risks of damage are pretty low. However do 10-20 days per year and risks go up as well as you naturally push harder with the risks increase also.
So with a 951 you will be down much less in case of major error.

Maintence will be dependant on how much you modifiy the car and how much you can do yourself on ot. They can be made just as fast however the more power you add to the motor the more work you will need to do to maintain it. It you choose to do some of that work yourself the costs are very managble. Otherwise you can still spend big money.

If you want to go with a all out race car and don't ming giving -up power even 8v 944 NA can be excellent car. In a way the fact that you ARE down on power forces you to learn to drive with momentum much more than 951 or 944S2 or 993. Thus you can be a faster driver. The down side is that they can get a little frustrating with only 130-140 hp at the rear wheels.

Even bone stock 951's have enough power to hold their own in any DE session.