Water Injection Nozzle Sizes
08-08-2004, 05:47 PM
#1
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Water Injection Nozzle Sizes
Can anyone recommend a water injection nozzle size for using 25% methanol 75% water?
My car makes about 300RWHP/350FWHP at 18psi.
I have 175 and 225 ml/min nozzles at 60 psi injection pressure but the pump will run at ~200 psi.
Are there any rules for working out nozzle size given boost/power?
Thanks
My car makes about 300RWHP/350FWHP at 18psi.
I have 175 and 225 ml/min nozzles at 60 psi injection pressure but the pump will run at ~200 psi.
Are there any rules for working out nozzle size given boost/power?
Thanks
08-08-2004, 10:07 PM
#3
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Here:
"Notes on Nozzle Choice:
I spoke with Brad Schaeffer at Georges Imports (816-333-6582). He's a very knowledgeable guy when it comes to water injection. Anyway, he clued me into Aquamist's web page. www.aquamist.co.uk. If you click on "supplier listing" then click on one of the green checkmarks next to a jet-nozzle on the left, a chart comes up with the flow rates for each nozzle based on supply pressure. It's listed for 5 bar and 7 bar. 5 bar is 73 psi, and 7 bar is about 102 psi. Since the pump that I'll be using oscillates from about 80 psi to 100 psi, our pump will be in the middle of those two figures.
Rule of thumb: You want your water injection to be putting in about 10% to 15% of the amount of fuel injected. So, since I have 550cc injectors (times 4 injectors) want about 220 to 330 cc's of water going in (assuming I'm using 550's to their potential). This could be accomplished by going with a 0.6 to 0.8 mm nozzle.
So, you should look at this chart and tell me what size you want. Brad recommended a few things:
1. He thought for our engines and setups (with 550s) that a 0.5 or 0.6 would be plenty. (Given a 100 psi pump)
2. He recommended getting a couple or three sizes to be able to test which works the best.
3. He recommended going with a two stage system. This would require 2 solenoids and 2 pressure switches. The first would come on at something like 4 psi and drive a .4 mm nozzle, and the second would come on at a higher boost (15 psi) and drive an additional .4 mm nozzle. The first nozzle is mounted 3-5" from the throttle plate. The second is mounted way upstream. Either farther down on the throttle body, farther back on the UIC pipe, or even before the intercooler. He said that once a system like this is setup up, you're car on a 90 degree day drives like it's a 20 degree day."
"Notes on Nozzle Choice:
I spoke with Brad Schaeffer at Georges Imports (816-333-6582). He's a very knowledgeable guy when it comes to water injection. Anyway, he clued me into Aquamist's web page. www.aquamist.co.uk. If you click on "supplier listing" then click on one of the green checkmarks next to a jet-nozzle on the left, a chart comes up with the flow rates for each nozzle based on supply pressure. It's listed for 5 bar and 7 bar. 5 bar is 73 psi, and 7 bar is about 102 psi. Since the pump that I'll be using oscillates from about 80 psi to 100 psi, our pump will be in the middle of those two figures.
Rule of thumb: You want your water injection to be putting in about 10% to 15% of the amount of fuel injected. So, since I have 550cc injectors (times 4 injectors) want about 220 to 330 cc's of water going in (assuming I'm using 550's to their potential). This could be accomplished by going with a 0.6 to 0.8 mm nozzle.
So, you should look at this chart and tell me what size you want. Brad recommended a few things:
1. He thought for our engines and setups (with 550s) that a 0.5 or 0.6 would be plenty. (Given a 100 psi pump)
2. He recommended getting a couple or three sizes to be able to test which works the best.
3. He recommended going with a two stage system. This would require 2 solenoids and 2 pressure switches. The first would come on at something like 4 psi and drive a .4 mm nozzle, and the second would come on at a higher boost (15 psi) and drive an additional .4 mm nozzle. The first nozzle is mounted 3-5" from the throttle plate. The second is mounted way upstream. Either farther down on the throttle body, farther back on the UIC pipe, or even before the intercooler. He said that once a system like this is setup up, you're car on a 90 degree day drives like it's a 20 degree day."
08-09-2004, 10:06 AM
#4
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Originally Posted by toddk911
The average is 5 or 6 mm.
I have seen the stuff on Aquamist before, still does not really tell me what I need. Somone please tell me what nozzle size and pump pressure they are using for their particular set up.
08-10-2004, 08:20 PM
#6
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Darius, any idea what those sizes translate to un terms of ml/min? I have 175 and 225 ml/min @ 60 psi jets and wanted to know how these translate into hole size.
08-11-2004, 11:53 AM
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I also have the aquamist---I have been using the middle nozzle--the car seems to run very cool when on the track at 25lbs of boost---the stock heat guage stays right at the low mark.
One thing that seemed to need some tweaking was the fuel regulator--I have the 55lb injectors and for what ever reason had to turn down the fuel pressure to keep the spark from blowing out.
Good luck.
One thing that seemed to need some tweaking was the fuel regulator--I have the 55lb injectors and for what ever reason had to turn down the fuel pressure to keep the spark from blowing out.
Good luck.
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08-11-2004, 08:13 PM
#8
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B951S,
I think this is what you're asking:
You're flowing about 225 ml/min. at 60 psi.
Without having to post formulas, I can tell you that translates to a hole size of about .75mm (give or take a wee bit).
Therefore that same hole size at 200 psi. will yield you a flow of a little over 400 ml/min. (give or take).
Therefore a .6mm with the same pressure will flow about 265 ml/min. (give or take)
Therefore a .5mm with the same pressure will flow about 180ml/min.
However, you probably know that usually pump pressures change with different hole sizes; pressures can even change a little depending on the voltage from the battery. So you can't take it for granted that you always have the same pressures, so your actual flows will change. Best thing for testing is to have the system on and let the liquid run into a graduated beaker for a set time. Then you have take off about 1 bar system pressure because that's what the nozzle will see (against boost pressure).
For max performance, less water is better; which is a lesser amount than what the usual opinions state.
Todd,
please don't believe the bit about water injected 90 degree day being as good as a 20 degree day. Typical water injection propaganda.
I think this is what you're asking:
You're flowing about 225 ml/min. at 60 psi.
Without having to post formulas, I can tell you that translates to a hole size of about .75mm (give or take a wee bit).
Therefore that same hole size at 200 psi. will yield you a flow of a little over 400 ml/min. (give or take).
Therefore a .6mm with the same pressure will flow about 265 ml/min. (give or take)
Therefore a .5mm with the same pressure will flow about 180ml/min.
However, you probably know that usually pump pressures change with different hole sizes; pressures can even change a little depending on the voltage from the battery. So you can't take it for granted that you always have the same pressures, so your actual flows will change. Best thing for testing is to have the system on and let the liquid run into a graduated beaker for a set time. Then you have take off about 1 bar system pressure because that's what the nozzle will see (against boost pressure).
For max performance, less water is better; which is a lesser amount than what the usual opinions state.
Todd,
please don't believe the bit about water injected 90 degree day being as good as a 20 degree day. Typical water injection propaganda.
