What is a 944 turbo"Club Sport"?
03-28-2004, 01:34 PM
#17
Rennlist Member
Porsche has made several "one off" models in very limited numbers, so I wouldn't be surprised if a handful of 951 CS actually were built. Perhaps as a development project from the very last 951 frames before the 968 and 968 CS were made.
As an example, it's generally understood that none of the 944/951 cabs were fitted with the M030 suspension equipment, yet I found an interesting French article featuring a stock 951 cabrio with adjustable front shocks. This car was reportedly the only one of its kind in existence.
As an example, it's generally understood that none of the 944/951 cabs were fitted with the M030 suspension equipment, yet I found an interesting French article featuring a stock 951 cabrio with adjustable front shocks. This car was reportedly the only one of its kind in existence.
03-28-2004, 04:26 PM
#18
Originally posted by Rich Sandor
Also, if the "Club Sport" sticker has a 944.x.x.x part number, that doesn't mean it came on a 944 as opposed to a 968. The 968 aero mirror bases have 944 part numbers as do the 968 door handles. yet we all know that no 944 came from the factory with these 968 parts.
Also, if the "Club Sport" sticker has a 944.x.x.x part number, that doesn't mean it came on a 944 as opposed to a 968. The 968 aero mirror bases have 944 part numbers as do the 968 door handles. yet we all know that no 944 came from the factory with these 968 parts.
I also got the part number from the 1990 944 section of PET.
Last edited by Fen; 03-28-2004 at 04:41 PM.
03-28-2004, 07:20 PM
#20
Rennlist Member
I guess we can call these "one offs" or "for racing only" models.
US 1988 Porsche 944 S Club Sport, four to eight built by Porsche and distributed through Holbert. See Excellence magazine April 1994 issue.
US 1991 Porsche 944 S2 Club Sport, only seven made for racing. I have the proof from Porsche but you can refer to an article in Excellence magazine June 1991 issue. One is currently for sale in the classified section of Rennlist.
US 1988 Porsche 944 S Club Sport, four to eight built by Porsche and distributed through Holbert. See Excellence magazine April 1994 issue.
US 1991 Porsche 944 S2 Club Sport, only seven made for racing. I have the proof from Porsche but you can refer to an article in Excellence magazine June 1991 issue. One is currently for sale in the classified section of Rennlist.
03-29-2004, 01:42 PM
#21
Fen - thanks for using a pic of my S2. At least you like it.
The Club Sport package, refered to as M637, was an option available in addition to M030 on 944 S and later on 944 S2. According to PET it only included the sticker and turbo Cup mirrors (924 units).
It appeared for the 1988 model year when the 928 Club Sport was launched - it was a car with its own specs, unlike the 4 cylinder cars.
I don't think there was any 951 CS as the "special spec" 951 was the S.
The sticker on my S2 is a copy, in plain black.
The original one is finished like the original "turbo" fender sticker originally found on 951 S - it's shaded.
Other pics of my S2 in my sig.
There was also a similar "CS Club Sport" fender sticker for the 968.
It's not listed in PET ; the dimensions are slightly different - it's a bit smaller in length and wider than the 944's.
I have a pic of it on a blue 968 CS, have to find where it's hiding on my HD ...
In the case of the "CS Club Sport" sticker numbered 944.etc.etc.etc, it was definitely designed for the 944 left fender only. If you look at the pic Fen attached it perfectly matches the shape/curvature of the fender.
Also it's listed in PET in the 944 section.
Mine is definitely specific to the 944, as well as the 968 specific "CS Club Sport" sticker was designed for 968 fenders and the 928 specific "CS Club Sport" sticker was designed for 928 fender.
The Club Sport package, refered to as M637, was an option available in addition to M030 on 944 S and later on 944 S2. According to PET it only included the sticker and turbo Cup mirrors (924 units).
It appeared for the 1988 model year when the 928 Club Sport was launched - it was a car with its own specs, unlike the 4 cylinder cars.
I don't think there was any 951 CS as the "special spec" 951 was the S.
The sticker on my S2 is a copy, in plain black.
The original one is finished like the original "turbo" fender sticker originally found on 951 S - it's shaded.
Other pics of my S2 in my sig.
There was also a similar "CS Club Sport" fender sticker for the 968.
It's not listed in PET ; the dimensions are slightly different - it's a bit smaller in length and wider than the 944's.
I have a pic of it on a blue 968 CS, have to find where it's hiding on my HD ...
Originally posted by Rich Sandor
Also, if the "Club Sport" sticker has a 944.x.x.x part number, that doesn't mean it came on a 944 as opposed to a 968.
Also, if the "Club Sport" sticker has a 944.x.x.x part number, that doesn't mean it came on a 944 as opposed to a 968.
Also it's listed in PET in the 944 section.
Mine is definitely specific to the 944, as well as the 968 specific "CS Club Sport" sticker was designed for 968 fenders and the 928 specific "CS Club Sport" sticker was designed for 928 fender.
Last edited by Thom; 03-29-2004 at 04:04 PM.
03-29-2004, 04:45 PM
#22
Rennlist Member
The 944S, Turbo, and S2 Club Sports were not production models like the 968 Club Sports or various versions of the 911 “RS” type cars. But a few of them exist.
In the US, the 944 Turbo “Club Sports” were most likely the Escort cars as imported to the US (DOT approved) to run in the SCCA Playboy/Escort series. PMNA intended for them to be used by dealerships and customers as race cars in the SCCA series, but a few of them ended up being left/used as street cars. The US Escort cars were very close to identical with the European and Canadian Turbo Cup cars, and usually in the US the two (Escort/Cup) descriptions are used interchangeably (although it is slightly incorrect).
The US Escort cars are rare and the ones left as street cars are very rare; we are probably talking about less than a dozen cars. I don’t know if the dealers/factory officially called them Club Sports, but that is the name associated with these “street” cars.
It was an option package, but I dont know if you could just walk into the dealer and order a Turbo with the 637 option code. I have a 1987 sales list from a dealer and the option codes are listed. Option 637 is called something like the Performance Handling Package and had to be ordered with the M030 option. The option code description is rather vague but mentions 8/9” whls (this would be the magnesium phone dials for +87), turbo braking system (for the 944S), larger sway bars, stiffer suspension (koni double adj coil-overs on the US cars), and measures to lighten the car…
As imported, they would have standard seats and seat belts for DOT approval, and Im not sure if the Matter cage was installed prior to delivery or after the importation, during the conversion to race specs by the dealer/team. I think it was done after, so the original street Club Sports probably do not have a cage (unless added after).
About 12 years ago, I saw an 86 Escort Car in Rothmans #73 colors at a Putnam Park DE. It is probably one on the team cars to Porschehead’s Holbert Car. There was also another plain red 86 Turbo with this car at the event that had the Escort/Club Sport upgrades. I don’t know if it was a true factory Club Sport, or if it had been “created” from spare parts. A few years later, I know of a guy that flew out to the west Oregon/Washington and bought an 86 Turbo Club Sport and drove it home to the mid-west. I saw it at a few track events until he rolled it and destroyed the car. Ooops, one fewer…
The 87-88 944S and 89-91 944S2 Club Sports were mostly used in the IMSA Firehawk series, so you hear them referred to as Firehawk cars. I saw two 944S Club Sports at a Road America PCA Club Race in 1994, one Red, one White. I have not seen them since. The S2 Firehawk cars are a little more prevalent. There are some actual factory 944S2 Club Sports around and then there are also several standard 944S2s that were converted to Club Sport/Firehawk specs by race teams like Kelly Moss (they used a lot of the factory parts). I have heard of at least one factory 944S2 club sport that was not raced and still in street trim, but that was several years ago; the car was black.
In the US, the 944 Turbo “Club Sports” were most likely the Escort cars as imported to the US (DOT approved) to run in the SCCA Playboy/Escort series. PMNA intended for them to be used by dealerships and customers as race cars in the SCCA series, but a few of them ended up being left/used as street cars. The US Escort cars were very close to identical with the European and Canadian Turbo Cup cars, and usually in the US the two (Escort/Cup) descriptions are used interchangeably (although it is slightly incorrect).
The US Escort cars are rare and the ones left as street cars are very rare; we are probably talking about less than a dozen cars. I don’t know if the dealers/factory officially called them Club Sports, but that is the name associated with these “street” cars.
It was an option package, but I dont know if you could just walk into the dealer and order a Turbo with the 637 option code. I have a 1987 sales list from a dealer and the option codes are listed. Option 637 is called something like the Performance Handling Package and had to be ordered with the M030 option. The option code description is rather vague but mentions 8/9” whls (this would be the magnesium phone dials for +87), turbo braking system (for the 944S), larger sway bars, stiffer suspension (koni double adj coil-overs on the US cars), and measures to lighten the car…
As imported, they would have standard seats and seat belts for DOT approval, and Im not sure if the Matter cage was installed prior to delivery or after the importation, during the conversion to race specs by the dealer/team. I think it was done after, so the original street Club Sports probably do not have a cage (unless added after).
About 12 years ago, I saw an 86 Escort Car in Rothmans #73 colors at a Putnam Park DE. It is probably one on the team cars to Porschehead’s Holbert Car. There was also another plain red 86 Turbo with this car at the event that had the Escort/Club Sport upgrades. I don’t know if it was a true factory Club Sport, or if it had been “created” from spare parts. A few years later, I know of a guy that flew out to the west Oregon/Washington and bought an 86 Turbo Club Sport and drove it home to the mid-west. I saw it at a few track events until he rolled it and destroyed the car. Ooops, one fewer…
The 87-88 944S and 89-91 944S2 Club Sports were mostly used in the IMSA Firehawk series, so you hear them referred to as Firehawk cars. I saw two 944S Club Sports at a Road America PCA Club Race in 1994, one Red, one White. I have not seen them since. The S2 Firehawk cars are a little more prevalent. There are some actual factory 944S2 Club Sports around and then there are also several standard 944S2s that were converted to Club Sport/Firehawk specs by race teams like Kelly Moss (they used a lot of the factory parts). I have heard of at least one factory 944S2 club sport that was not raced and still in street trim, but that was several years ago; the car was black.
03-29-2004, 05:23 PM
#23
Nordschleife Master
Thom and Oddjob: Thanks for posting and clarifying!!!
Its nice to have people who actually know what they're talking about respond to a post to set things straight!!!
Too many people like me on here who think they know everything because they read it somewhere on the internet!!!
Its nice to have people who actually know what they're talking about respond to a post to set things straight!!!
Too many people like me on here who think they know everything because they read it somewhere on the internet!!!
03-29-2004, 08:16 PM
#24
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Rich, good to hear about the 944 model-car progress! I'm hoping they'll have a 951
Dan P... this sounds interesting to say the least. Tell us more about the 951 CS this guy had. Did you manage to snap a few shots of the car you might be able to share??
FYI... If I came across as refusing to believe this, I apologize. Like Rich said, my only sources are online documents and references. I'd much rather have documented proof when believing this... but I understand some of the rarities aren't documented at all really.
Dan P... this sounds interesting to say the least. Tell us more about the 951 CS this guy had. Did you manage to snap a few shots of the car you might be able to share??
FYI... If I came across as refusing to believe this, I apologize. Like Rich said, my only sources are online documents and references. I'd much rather have documented proof when believing this... but I understand some of the rarities aren't documented at all really.
03-29-2004, 08:51 PM
#25
Unaffiliated
Sorry, no pics. The guy's name is Al Grill. He used to buy a 930, C4, Turbo S, whatever.. each year from Fred Baker Porsche. He got a very early 88 Silver Rose S, rumored to be one of the first in the US, Brad K owns it now. I remember his Turbo Club Sport because he bought it over to our house, (brand new, probably 87) and told me about the lightweight option, crank windows, etc. Back then I didn't know much about the 944s so I wasn't as awestruck as I should have been. It was white, I don't recall the interior.. but it had a CS decal on the fender. He did drivers schools with the PCA and had an incident with the car on Mid-Ohio where he over cooked turn 13 and got a rear corner into a wall. The car was repairable, but the wound to his ego wasn't.. I think he was done with DE's after that. He's an older guy and retired to FLA, I don't have any way to contact him. I haven't said much about that car since then because there isn't any documentation about them I've seen. I'm sure most DID become race cars. He was the type of guy to like something different, fast on the track and street driveable..and $$ wasn't any object. I DO wish I had a pic.. but I don't. Back then I didn't care.. I thought muscle cars were the shiznet.. I'm glad someone came along who knows more, I bet you weren't the only one thinking I mistook a car with a sticker for something special!
Last edited by 944Fest (aka Dan P); 03-30-2004 at 08:55 AM.
03-29-2004, 09:20 PM
#26
Rennlist Member
I did a little more research. From the wording in the 1987 dealers manual for the 944 series, it sounds like the Club Sport was a street use option that could be purchased by a regular customer.
Here is the quote:
"Sports package for 944S and 944 Turbo. This package includes stiffer spring settings, turbo brake system, adjustable rear axle stabilizer, firmer suspension arm bearings, 8" front and 9" rear wheels w/ 225/50 and 245/45 VR 16 tires respectively, as well as measures to reduce the weight of the entire car. NOTE: A somewhat milder version of this performance handling package called the Club Sport Package is also available."
Later in the manual it lists the options codes as:
"Performance Handling Package 637" with a footnote that states "Option 637 must be ordered with option 030".
I also found an article that the buyer of the 86 Turbo Club Sport (the one I mentioned in my previous post) wrote in our PCA regional news letter about the car:
"It was guard red with full coilover suspension, adjustable sway bars, and fuchs. No power windows or steering, no AC, sound deadening or sunroof. No radio."
There are some small black and white photos of the car in the article. What is interesting is that it has the standard door mirrors, not the black plastic non-power units. It does not have a cage in it. And I cannot tell from the angle if it has a fiberglass hood or not.
The suspension in the car was the full dbl adjustable koni race coilovers. After the car was totaled, a guy I know purchased the suspension and put it in his plain 944 club race car.
Here is the quote:
"Sports package for 944S and 944 Turbo. This package includes stiffer spring settings, turbo brake system, adjustable rear axle stabilizer, firmer suspension arm bearings, 8" front and 9" rear wheels w/ 225/50 and 245/45 VR 16 tires respectively, as well as measures to reduce the weight of the entire car. NOTE: A somewhat milder version of this performance handling package called the Club Sport Package is also available."
Later in the manual it lists the options codes as:
"Performance Handling Package 637" with a footnote that states "Option 637 must be ordered with option 030".
I also found an article that the buyer of the 86 Turbo Club Sport (the one I mentioned in my previous post) wrote in our PCA regional news letter about the car:
"It was guard red with full coilover suspension, adjustable sway bars, and fuchs. No power windows or steering, no AC, sound deadening or sunroof. No radio."
There are some small black and white photos of the car in the article. What is interesting is that it has the standard door mirrors, not the black plastic non-power units. It does not have a cage in it. And I cannot tell from the angle if it has a fiberglass hood or not.
The suspension in the car was the full dbl adjustable koni race coilovers. After the car was totaled, a guy I know purchased the suspension and put it in his plain 944 club race car.
03-29-2004, 10:05 PM
#27
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'"It was guard red with full coilover suspension, adjustable sway bars, and fuchs. No power windows or steering, no AC, sound deadening or sunroof. No radio."'
Jeesh! coilovers everywhere...
I'm going to have a few dreams about that tonight, crap!
Jeesh! coilovers everywhere...
I'm going to have a few dreams about that tonight, crap!
03-29-2004, 10:31 PM
#28
Rennlist Member
mmmmm, Club Sport
I really have enjoyed all this discussion about Club Sport 951's. I have two thoughts:
o Please post any pictures of any Club Sport, 951, 968. 928, 911, or 930.
o I am fairly certain every Club Sport has the decal on the left front fender on all models and the decal was shaded.
Does anybody know what Karl Ludvigsen "Excellence was Expected" has to say about Club Sports in his latest edition? I think mine was published in 1978, no help.
You guys are great, keep digging around for more info.
o Please post any pictures of any Club Sport, 951, 968. 928, 911, or 930.
o I am fairly certain every Club Sport has the decal on the left front fender on all models and the decal was shaded.
Does anybody know what Karl Ludvigsen "Excellence was Expected" has to say about Club Sports in his latest edition? I think mine was published in 1978, no help.
You guys are great, keep digging around for more info.
03-30-2004, 07:15 AM
#30
Originally posted by Luis de Prat
I found an interesting French article featuring a stock 951 cabrio with adjustable front shocks. This car was reportedly the only one of its kind in existence.
I found an interesting French article featuring a stock 951 cabrio with adjustable front shocks. This car was reportedly the only one of its kind in existence.
IIRC this car was ordered by Jürgen Barth or somebody else important at the factory who wanted some "ultimate specs" turbo cab.