PF

Another option and truly great engine is the SAAB 9000 2,3 Aero engine. Made full boost at 1800rpms in - 93. Only 225hp at the top but was often tuned to about 400 HP with the stock turbo so definetely engines out there that are very elastic. Best stock 4 cylinder engine I have driven. Many endurance racers here in Sweden swap these into the 944 platform

schip43

No your not thinking it about it wrong?? Off Boost and day in day out driving ... in the "real world" 951's ... kinda suck?? If your not on the edge of building boost, you got nothing??? Where I am in Dayton NV, close to home the roads are pretty much straight. And I'm right off Hwy 50 and tit's a 16 mile to drive to Carson City. And the speed limits are 60 /35/50/60/50/35 and sure I could can do that in third gear???Only one light till it drops back to 45 but that would get "old" (fast) I would imagine?? My lightly modded 89 Turbo S has all the standard mods required to run 17 psi day in and day out. And on "boost" it hauls ***! In spectacular fashion.

But day in day out in the real world ... if/when I shift into 5th?? There should be a warning light that says "shut motor down now???" Cuz if I shift into 5th at speeds below ... 75 mph, I got nothing??? If I got some sigh, tail gating, Corolla/Camry/Pick Up on my butt!! That crap gets old fast ... so I gotta start dropping gears and yep back to third! And point where you wanna go!!! And yeah that crap is epic! But you know V! or not ... your only gonna get away with that crap for so long around here??

Cuz you know when the randomly appearing NVP shows up?? Any guesses as to who gets pulled over?? I don't down run the Silver State Classic or the yearly race up to Virginia City?? So 165 mph + on the top end, does not really mean much to me??? 140 verified late one nigh and it took 100 mph + to lose some tail gating tool in a Ford 250 pulling a horse trailer going up hill, late on night on Hwy 50???!

At any rate a change in gearing would seem like the east costly method to "civilize" these things for NA?? But I don't know, so it's not just you.

t0mbo

Thank you all for the responses! At this point I think my best options are to continue driving the car and see if I can get used to the low end power (thanks Chris!), and then maybe try a S2 R&P swap. If there's anyone in the PNW or Colorado region with a a S2 trans swapped into a 951 I would love to drive it and get some driving impressions before making the leap (there'e free beer- contact me!).

I would LOVE to twin charge or use a VTG on the stock 951 bottom end, but I'm not sure if I'm the best development mule to tackle a monstrous project like that. I'm not super interested in engine swapping at this time, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't be interested for a different car or future build, so I welcome those suggestions as well.

A 3.0L is still intriguing to me, and again, if there's anyone with a 3.0+ build who wants a free beer I would really like to try driving one. If anyone has additional thoughts or suggestions let's keep em coming!

schip43

Well I don't know if this is still alive, 4.11 ring and pinion group buy??:
https://rennlist.com/forums/944-turb...nd-pinion.html
For me that would mean ... not breaking my local speed limit in second gear ... 65 mph. Lopping 20 or 30 mph off the top end would be a pretty good trade off for day to day "civility??" Most likely it'd still hit 140?? I could live with that.

Droops83

There have been some good suggestions above---especially a rear end swap, which really wakes up a 951 around town! However, you might want to consider a simple turbocharger swap. I am running what turned out to be the prototype for the "Raptor" series of turbochargers built by Charlie Brown of Evergreen Turbo, which is a hybrid K27 compressor side with modern billet wheel coupled to a ported K26 turbine housing with larger yet lighter 9-blade turbine wheel. This makes it a bolt-on affair for a stock 944 Turbo (other than bending/modifying the stock coolant feed pipe and substituting a shorter coolant temp switch), and the results have been amazing. I am running a VEMS engine management system and larger injectors/fuel pump, but exhaust manifold/crossover are stock, with SFR 3" downpipe and center exhaust section. Positive manifold pressure occurs at 2000 RPM, and 1 bar (14.7 PSI) boost below 3000 in higher gears). Withe proper tuning, the throttle response is great, and drivability around town is way better than with the stock K26/6 turbo. I'll have dyno results with datalog files (back pressure, etc) soon. My initial back pressure tests with a Snap-On fuel pressure gauge at 19 PSI boost showed ~25 PSI back pressure in the crossover pipe, which is amazing for such a small turbine housing. I will post datalog shots once I get my pressure transducer/damper installed (which is a challenge in the tight 951 engine bay!).

My 951 is more of a track car, and I will probably end up with a #8 turbine housing for better top-end flow/less back pressure during sustained WOT at the track, but with the same turbine wheel and compressor side. The #6 housing that I have now is amazing for street use and autocross, and if combined with a S2 or 968 gearbox it would make for a tire-shredding monster!

If you end up going whole hog with the 3.0 build, a larger hot side would be the ticket.

mudbuddha

I haven't post on here for a while but if you guys are ever down near the DMV, Maryland area, I can let you test drive the 3L... Btw, Chris, your 3L is still running strong after all these year. Good to see you are still around!

schip43

Well of course ... there is more than one way to "skin a cat as it were??"

And no doubt a 951 on "full Kill" ie "Boost" is lot's of fun! But when the "crazy" subsides and you actually have to get to work in "traffic" ... they kinda "suck??" And get caught in light traffic by some freaking "tool!" In uh "no traffic and clear right lane!" Doing 90 ... just to get on your "A$$!" And your doing the limit in god forbid 5th gear ... and your dead meat!!

And yeah ... I suppose I could have let him go?? But I was ticked!! And yeah I could have let it go ... I suppose?? But hey I chose "NO!" It's go time, and 5th at 90 wasn't gonna do it, and neither would 4th?? But third at 90 mph??? I found the power band, the tool managed to get half a fender on me before I hit full boost "17 psi" and I shot off like I was launched from an air craft carrier!! It was epic! V` said all clear at that time, but had it not??? I'd have been the bad guy???

Day in Day out in in daily driving in "this country" 951's with stock gearing .... get old??? I would imagine a 4:10 gear set in a 951 gear box, would make a hugh, transformation with a boosted 2.5 and if you got more than that ie (stroked 2.5 or a full 3.0( .. well better still!.) But hey ... I don't know??

t0mbo

I'm starting to look into S2 ring and pinions with the 5th gear to swap into my car. What do you all think is a fair price to pay for these in good condition?

Schip43 - thanks for your comments. I agree that the off boost power leaves a lot to be desired, but your 4th and 5th gear descriptions sound like there's something else going on. My 951 boosts great in all gears without any issues, even 4th and 5th as long as I'm above like 50mph. I can be cruising in 5th on the interstate and just floor it and and I have immediate boost, no waiting. I can easily pass with a crazy amount of pull in both 4th and 5th at highway speeds. My complaints are almost all 0-10mph. Driving around downtown, or starting from a dead stop is where I struggle. After I'm moving at 10mph or more I can readily keep it in boost and really enjoy driving the car. It's pulling out into traffic from a stop where I get concerned...