Here's my kit. Take a 2.5 litre block up to 3.0, with a stock 2.5 liter crank.
I've designed the ductile iron closed deck sleeves. I do all the machining on my own Mazak SV20. I'll place some more photos up when i get a chance. I'll let you know how it goes.

 

vogel,

Nice parts. Boy, do they look fimilar. Great to see other doing the same level of engineering. Great parts man. Way to go. Good luck.

 

Vogel, check you pm or email

 

So your kit will take a 2.5L engine to 3.0L all bore?

 

Yeah, all bore. Custom Arias pistons, Titanium rods, Milledge cam, 2.5 liter crank. 2975cc, if i recall correctly. 109.47mm bore.

I do my own machining with the exception of cylinder head work.

 

Care to share prices for some of those items, Vogel?

 

Why are there holes in the liners up top?

Seems as though that would limit the sealing options.. as well as facilitate any combustion pressure that leaked to go directly into the coolant passage, which causes all sorts of problems.

There must be a good explanation for them... hard to see what's up from the picture..

So what gives?

TonyG

 

It looks to me like the holes are in the coolant jackets. Shouldn't be any more difficult to seal than anything else I have seen.

 

109.47 is one massive bore. We are in Big Block Chevy territory now. :0

 

Are these sleeves pictured blanks from a supplier that we can talk too? Darton? LA Sleeve? Eagle?

They almost look as though they are wet sleeves instead of dry. Is this true? ~109 would be GREAT.

 

Explain what you mean by "Boy, do the look familiar [sic] "

 

These are the Darton Interlocking Sleeves. The system is used on the Honda's, Mustang 4.6L etc. The holes are to allow coolant to circulate around the tops of the liners, as this is the hottest part. These look exactly the same as the Liners for my new engine. I'm sure the only difference is the outside design. Not sure how Vogel is installing them, but I know that the Interlocking system will require a Deck Plate, as the top will be unsupported. There is a big difference in the 944 block and the Honda etc. The 944 block does not have a lot of material below the deck line to hold the Liners, so if you bore aout most of the stock liner, more will be required to hold them at the top. Thats what I understand it to be. Vogel is on the ball here. Its great to see more people using the latest parts. Its is changing for all of us.

 

I do believe that thats the reason he has interlocking and "side-wall" held sleeves. We can all see the flat edge of the outer-most sleeve - that is obviously held against the inner wall of the block.

The modular mustang 4.6 sleeves from Darton are the "MIDI" sleeves, as I recall, and they are WET SLEEVES, and as it was explained to me by LA sleeve, the WHOLE BORE is removed and the new sleeve is o-ringed at the bottom to fit in to a well in the actuall base-webbing of the block.

This is not a long term solution, as the water cirtculating WILL eventually get into the crank case through those seams at the bottom of the block.

Vogel - With a bore tower on the 944 (same as the 928 5.0L) of 100mm ID, and approx ~113 for the OD, how much of the HEIGHT and then the actual bore wall are you removing to fit these huge sleeves in? Thanks/

Thank you for your info M42 - I suspected they were as you describe. I don't see a deck plate working with this little unfileld area on these interlocking sleeves. Any info?

 

Hi guys, I'm from the 928 board.

I really don't follow the 951 stuff too much, although I really do like the car, so forgive me if my question is kind of dumb.

I'm wondering why some of you are going with the deck plate on the cylinders. Are you having problems? If so, can you explain what they are? Blowing head gaskets, or breaking the cylinder walls perhaps?

I ask this because I have supercharged my 88 928s4 and am in the process of building another motor with lowered compression. I plan to run 16 to 18psi and expect a little over 600rwhp. Since my block/cylinder design is very close to the 951 I am curious what problems your have experienced with the higher boost.

Regards,

 

The Deck plate can be used with these Liners. The Flange on the Liner is a little different to accomodate the Deck Plate. When the bore becomes as big as Vogel is talking, the Liners automatically become wet. The prblem is the Block does not have enough support for the Liners I'm told. I saw the Honda system at The PRI show. the block is completely differente to ours, and the Honda Liners have O rings at the bottom to seal. The 944/968 is very very different. PD has looked at this for sometime and to date offers several bore sizes for the 944 and 968. Both use the Deck Plate, and on some big bore applications, he told me the liners become wet sided.

The reason I'm told for the Deck Plate is to stop the movement of the Liners under boost. It also helps support the H/G, and to add block pressure. By using the Liners with water tops, the heat is removed from the top of the Liner, which help in combustion, detenation, and keeps the cylinders round and concentric. for more detailed info, I would call Neil @ PD for a far better explanation.