DME destroyed?
03-28-2018 | 10:06 PM
#76
Thread Starter
Drifting
I didn't have the opportunity to get at it today, and I am glad. Reading these posts tonight, I've got a sense of procedure and basics to look at. Thank you.
My next opportunity to devot good time will start Friday. As so many search for Easter eggs this weekend, I, too, will be searching for something, posting as I go along.
This conversation actually makes this a somewhat pleasent journey
As for fuel, I have confirmed fuel flow and seen fuel in a cylinder [EDIT: turns out I don't think I saw fuel in a cylinder but rather anti-seize residue on the threads]; I haven't confirmed fuel pressure nor observed operation of injectors during starting. I plan to invest in this noid light by Friday. Note that I have confirmed voltage at the fuel injectors as per Test Plan.
I didn't see any procedure for 'jumping the KLR' in the Test Plan I'm referencing; thanks for that info.
I will be trying any and all suggestions posted thus far. At least I am learning far more than I ever imagined! Thank you for staying tuned!
My next opportunity to devot good time will start Friday. As so many search for Easter eggs this weekend, I, too, will be searching for something, posting as I go along.
This conversation actually makes this a somewhat pleasent journey
As for fuel, I have confirmed fuel flow and seen fuel in a cylinder [EDIT: turns out I don't think I saw fuel in a cylinder but rather anti-seize residue on the threads]; I haven't confirmed fuel pressure nor observed operation of injectors during starting. I plan to invest in this noid light by Friday. Note that I have confirmed voltage at the fuel injectors as per Test Plan.
I didn't see any procedure for 'jumping the KLR' in the Test Plan I'm referencing; thanks for that info.
I will be trying any and all suggestions posted thus far. At least I am learning far more than I ever imagined! Thank you for staying tuned!
Last edited by Dan Martinic; 03-31-2018 at 04:21 PM.
03-28-2018 | 10:24 PM
#77
Thread Starter
Drifting
The S100 output going to the 8051 interrupt pins are easier to watch on the scope (simple 0 or 5v square pulse trains) so maybe that would be an easier way for you to see if both sensor signals are working.
And are you 100% sure you didn't mix up the speed and ref sensor connectors?
. Will check on this as well!
03-28-2018 | 10:53 PM
#78
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist
Site Sponsor
Rennlist Member
Rennlist
Site Sponsor
03-28-2018 | 11:11 PM
#79
Thread Starter
Drifting
Oh yeah.. thanks for the reminder! Btw.. the light goes between which terminals on the coil--the outer two, correct? I think this is the first thing I will try Friday... then the KLR jumper.
[Edit: my apologies; just read post #32 making clear where to connect]
[Edit: my apologies; just read post #32 making clear where to connect]
Last edited by Dan Martinic; 03-29-2018 at 12:46 PM. Reason: Update
03-28-2018 | 11:19 PM
#80
Thread Starter
Drifting
Also, I double-checked the sensor connections; Even though by the labels they are correct, I reversed them and tried to start... same. Now, I am 99.99999% sure they are correct.
Crazy Dan cranking the car before bedtime...
PS.. I don't hear the injectors, do you? (I put fuse #34 back in for this one)
Last edited by Dan Martinic; 03-28-2018 at 11:21 PM. Reason: Spelling error
03-29-2018 | 06:12 AM
#81
Well, I don’t have much to offer in terms of technical help, but I can feel your pain on this. And your taking it like a champ actually. The people on this thread are really putting together some great theories and I’m sure y’all will figure this out. I’ve learned a ton about the computer system of our car just by reading though this. Hang in there, you’re gonna sort this out. 👍🏼
Ps. I think I read that you checked the DME relay correct? And the actual connections from the fuse box to the fuel pump? But my money is on those speed/reference sensors. Something up with them.
Ps. I think I read that you checked the DME relay correct? And the actual connections from the fuse box to the fuel pump? But my money is on those speed/reference sensors. Something up with them.
03-29-2018 | 10:52 AM
#82
Thread Starter
Drifting
I did check the DME relay via procedure I found online; but I checked the actual relay only. I did not try any jumper or paperclip method and crank the car in the absence of the relay. I am now planning on doing that tomorrow.
03-29-2018 | 11:31 AM
#83
Nordschleife Master
03-29-2018 | 12:24 PM
#84
Thread Starter
Drifting
Not the only one
You won't believe this.. but.. I'm a little.. hesitant.
Ok, afraid.
What are the chances of blowing something doing this? Which method is safer, bare wires into the slots or paperclip wound on relay?
I understand that the fuel pump runs immediately non-stop. Something about handling bare power (esp at the fusebox) is uncomfortable.
And I once connected a line into a live breaker box... go figure. Guess I value the car more than the house
You won't believe this.. but.. I'm a little.. hesitant.
Ok, afraid.
What are the chances of blowing something doing this? Which method is safer, bare wires into the slots or paperclip wound on relay?
I understand that the fuel pump runs immediately non-stop. Something about handling bare power (esp at the fusebox) is uncomfortable.
And I once connected a line into a live breaker box... go figure. Guess I value the car more than the house
03-29-2018 | 02:08 PM
#85
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist
Site Sponsor
Rennlist Member
Rennlist
Site Sponsor
Not the only one
You won't believe this.. but.. I'm a little.. hesitant.
Ok, afraid.
What are the chances of blowing something doing this? Which method is safer, bare wires into the slots or paperclip wound on relay?
I understand that the fuel pump runs immediately non-stop. Something about handling bare power (esp at the fusebox) is uncomfortable.
And I once connected a line into a live breaker box... go figure. Guess I value the car more than the house
You won't believe this.. but.. I'm a little.. hesitant.
Ok, afraid.
What are the chances of blowing something doing this? Which method is safer, bare wires into the slots or paperclip wound on relay?
I understand that the fuel pump runs immediately non-stop. Something about handling bare power (esp at the fusebox) is uncomfortable.
And I once connected a line into a live breaker box... go figure. Guess I value the car more than the house
Try bypassing the KLR. Paper clip or a wire will be fine.. As long as you are careful.
03-29-2018 | 02:35 PM
#86
Thread Starter
Drifting
At one point, I swore I saw and smelled fuel in a hole from a removed spark plug; but the other night, when I removed one again, all I noticed was shiny residue from anti-seize and no smell on the plug.
It isn't easy for a first-timer at all this diagnosing to be carrying this over a period of days or weeks
There's been so much going on, I'm forgetting what the heck I've done and haven't done. I definitely did everything I could with a voltmeter and the offical DME/KLR Test Plan, including some voltage checks at the injectors. But, I know for sure I haven't confirmed the injectors actually firing during starting with a noid light or LED.
Tonight, I'm stopping by a parts store to see about getting a noid light. I've noticed online that they come for different car makes; most kits have a "Bosch PFI". I'm assuming this is the one I need?
I re-read post #32; I should go back and re-read this entire thread nightly!
I feel like I need to start over.. with the basics. Perhaps make a simple checklist for tomorrow
03-29-2018 | 03:44 PM
#87
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist
Site Sponsor
Rennlist Member
Rennlist
Site Sponsor
Well, this is it: I remember testing for fuel by removing the return line, but, unbelievably, I can't recall if I had the DME relay in and cranked or if I--odd as this may sound now--jumpered two slots to activate the fuel pump briefly.
At one point, I swore I saw and smelled fuel in a hole from a removed spark plug; but the other night, when I removed one again, all I noticed was shiny residue from anti-seize and no smell on the plug.
It isn't easy for a first-timer at all this diagnosing to be carrying this over a period of days or weeks
There's been so much going on, I'm forgetting what the heck I've done and haven't done. I definitely did everything I could with a voltmeter and the offical DME/KLR Test Plan, including some voltage checks at the injectors. But, I know for sure I haven't confirmed the injectors actually firing during starting with a noid light or LED.
Tonight, I'm stopping by a parts store to see about getting a noid light. I've noticed online that they come for different car makes; most kits have a "Bosch PFI". I'm assuming this is the one I need?
I re-read post #32; I should go back and re-read this entire thread nightly!
I feel like I need to start over.. with the basics. Perhaps make a simple checklist for tomorrow
At one point, I swore I saw and smelled fuel in a hole from a removed spark plug; but the other night, when I removed one again, all I noticed was shiny residue from anti-seize and no smell on the plug.
It isn't easy for a first-timer at all this diagnosing to be carrying this over a period of days or weeks
There's been so much going on, I'm forgetting what the heck I've done and haven't done. I definitely did everything I could with a voltmeter and the offical DME/KLR Test Plan, including some voltage checks at the injectors. But, I know for sure I haven't confirmed the injectors actually firing during starting with a noid light or LED.
Tonight, I'm stopping by a parts store to see about getting a noid light. I've noticed online that they come for different car makes; most kits have a "Bosch PFI". I'm assuming this is the one I need?
I re-read post #32; I should go back and re-read this entire thread nightly!
I feel like I need to start over.. with the basics. Perhaps make a simple checklist for tomorrow
- remove fuse for pump
- make sure you are getting 12V at DME
- check injectors pulse with LED or noid light.
- check ignition pulses at coil with LED (black is + green in -)
Report what you find so we can advise.
03-29-2018 | 07:25 PM
#88
Thread Starter
Drifting
Starting fresh makes sense. I hope you already removed the fuse for the Fuel pump, before all the speed/Ref tests. If the injectors are firing, you could fill up the cylinders with fuel. Removing the fuse keeps the fuel out of the equation while checking the injectors and ignition.
- remove fuse for pump
- make sure you are getting 12V at DME
- check injectors pulse with LED or noid light.
- check ignition pulses at coil with LED (black is + green in -)
Report what you find so we can advise.
- remove fuse for pump
- make sure you are getting 12V at DME
- check injectors pulse with LED or noid light.
- check ignition pulses at coil with LED (black is + green in -)
Report what you find so we can advise.
Yes, I have had the fuel pump fuse mostly disconnected, only occasionally connecting it back in anticipation of a possible start.
So, not much at all
03-29-2018 | 09:27 PM
#89
Please verify the correct polarity for the signal from the speed and reference signals. My car had the wiring from the sensors replaced, and the sensor connector pins were loose in the connector (the connector had disintegrated, leaving just the spades crimped to the wires). Bottom line the owner reversed the reference signal conductors, so when i put new sensors the ref sensor wiring was reversed. A no start condition. Need to look at the DME connector and verify phase signal of the ref sensor. Procedure well defined in the test steps from the service manual. Need an Oscope for this test.