Dan Panzone

So, my most recent development on this pile o crap of my bosses is the oil system wont prime.


way more oil then the car needs in the sump atm (just to be sure)

mechanical gauge in sending unit position (didn't trust the sender)

timing belt removed and spinning pump with a drill, clockwise (didn't work)

had assembly lube squirt down the oil pick up tube at one point trying to create enough vacuum to initiate a prime (didn't work)

dropped the pan to make sure I'm not insane and forgot the o-ring for the pickup tube (it's there)

tried a completely different pump from Tom at 928 Intl. (didn't work)

tried pressurizing the sump via dip stick tube while spinning the pump with a drill to drive the liquid up like a siphon tube would work until it met the gears of the pump then the pump would draw liquid as a vacuum (didn't work)

finally, tried a oil pressure pot I use on motors I've built in the past on the return side oil cooler port. yes I know its on the secondary side of the pump at that point but hey why not right? lol

oh yeah also tried the pressure pot spinning the drill backward on the pump then reversing the direction of the drill quickly thinking it would have a column of oil down the pick up tube to initiate a prime (didn't work)


any ideas on what I could be missing here, never ran across this type of situation before.

Car is a US 1980 K-Jet

GlenL

What's going on with the pressure regulator? Any changes there?

Is there an oil cooler and is the thermostat working?

Is the pump seated all the way in?

Did you put assembly lube or other heavier grease in the pump?

Is the pickup tube blocked inside or at the pickup?

hacker-pschorr

How powerful of a drill are you using, and why do you think it's not priming?

I've done this before and the only sign it's priming is the drill going under a load. Most electric drills will not spin the pump fast enough once primed to show anything on a gauge.

Is the oil filter on the car? Take it off, spin the drill. If any oil comes out it's primed.

928NOOBIE

My name is Optimus Prime...

Sorry..just saw the movie and finished off a bucket of corn (omg there I go again)...

Ducman82

What drill? I had to use a nice corded one to get enough umfp to get her to prime. You could hear/feel the drill big down. She needs tk soon fast. Most cordless can't.

Brian'sIris

Nice work with all of your diagnostic tests, but I'm with Hacker on this. You probably can't develop enough pressure under those conditions to get a good reading, but the pump may well be priming. Do the oil filter check first. Another possibility is the block behind the pump got chewed up, which could happen if the nut holding the pulley came loose while running.

-Brian

Adamant1971

My old 12v cordless Makita had no problems and actually it built up enough pressure that it blew my temp oil cooler hose right off and sprayed my wall. (hose was not on tight enough)

When I successfully primed the system I could clearly hear the oil draining back down into the pan from the heads. Then I drained the oil and could see the white assembly grease in the oil.

Like others have said, once some pressure is built up you will feel the drill struggle a bit. I had mine set in the low speed high torque setting vs the high RPM setting.

Dan Panzone

GlenL

"What's going on with the pressure regulator? Any changes there?"
Are you referring to the bypass valves? didn't know there were regulators in these cars, never even seen a reference to one.


"Is there an oil cooler and is the thermostat working?"
1980 US cars didn't come with a cooler supposedly so the ports are just blocked off, have tried it with the oil t-stat and without, no difference, still doesn't prime


"Is the pump seated all the way in?"
Torqued to 15 ftlbs

"Did you put assembly lube or other heavier grease in the pump?"
Tried both Lucas & CRC assembly lube in the pump gears and the siphon tube,


"Is the pickup tube blocked inside or at the pickup?"
No, even had a bore scope down the pick up tube hole from the pump side and had oil up inside the pickup tube since the sump was overfilled

Dan Panzone

Hacker

I'm using a Milwaukee M18 fuel drill, has more then enough beef, and we did get the pump full of oil running it backward with my pressure pot feeding oil into the system and I did feel the resistance when the oil hit the gears of the pump. Just haven't felt that same resistance in clockwise rotation, meaning no oil being pulled up from the sump.

And I tried it with the high pressure valve and spring removed instead of the filter since its the first thing ion line after the pump, figured closer to the source was better. Nothing came out.

ammonman

Pull the pump and measure the clearances of the rotor and stator to each other and of the stator to the pump housing. Priming problems are either due to leakage on the suction side or excess clearance of the pumping elements and/or the case. Contrary to popular assumption pumps don't "suck" fluid in. Rather they create a small low pressure area at the inlet and atmospheric pressure pushes the fluid into the pump. Any leakage or excess clearance will cause the pump to fail creating that low pressure zone, hence no priming.

Mike

Mrmerlin

make sure the pump outer gear and driver gear has both of the dots facing the block the outer gear has a small bevel on its outer edge, this must face forwards.
I use STP oil treatment in the pump and gears and put the whole thing together with DC111 on the O rings for the pump,
dont bother priming it,
if you think you must then remove the spark plugs and crank it with the starter and a fresh battery, though starting the car will give the best chance for oi lpressure to build.
FWIW did you split the girdle?
did you have the new oil pick up seal or use the old one?

Do you have the correct year pump for your block,
verify the engine block code VS the correct oil pump parts ,
as they made changes and early pumps may not work with all years
If you have the correct pump.

I would put the timing belt on and start the engine the oil pressure will come.
I thought i had issues with a 4.7 engine and spent a few cycles of making the battery go low by extended cranking the oil came up very slowly finally after the third time of cranking it with the plugs out I found oil coming out the cam journal,
once I found this I put it together and started it ,
the oil pressure gauge took about 2 mins to come alive,
and it would have been obvious if the pump wasnt working, but the engine ran quietly

GregBBRD

Air leak in the pick-up tube. Most common place is at the junction of the tube to the block.

Order a factory sealing ring for the pick-up. It will have a smaller outer diameter section in the middle of it, where it is made to compress, while keeping both ends in contact with the pick-up and the cradle.

The aftermarket seals (yes, the ones that come in the Reinz gaskets sets) are straight wall on the OD and ID. They can/will fold. Throw them away/give them to people you don't like.

worf928

LOL. Is there anything in the V-R gasket kit that is good?

GregBBRD

Absolutely! I use these gasket sets all the time. Like almost anything these days, just requires a few changes to optimize.

I do understand that the novice home guy is at a slight disadvantage, not knowing the subtile differences. As I'm sure you know, there are also several pieces missing.

I've done the "price comparision math" with the pieces I don't use and the pieces missing. It's still cheaper to buy the Victor Reinz set by about $100 (for an S4.)

That being said, if I was a home novice, with no idea that there are "issues", I'd pay the extra and buy the factory gasket set, to avoid problems.

atb

Has anyone ever had the oil pick up seal (are they still orange?) that comes with that set to work? I've never heard of a success story using it. Very frustrating, almost like a cruel joke that they even include it.