pozzello

Hello everyone,

I'm considering a 1988 Porsche 928 S4 from a used car dealer but know nothing about 928s and would appreciate some feedback :-) It's a low mile car (under 30,000) and the paint looks original and almost flawless except for 1 tiny blister on the driver door sill. A few things I noticed :

- car appears to have been improperly jacked and the lower sub frame is dented/deformed - is this a big deal ?
- small crack in dash and slightly warped
- looks like aftermarket made in italy cup style wheels - are original wheels still available new ?
- exhaust tip looks high up
- trunk release whirls but trunk has to be opened with key
- I took it for a test drive and the idle is very low and surges, and it stalled twice.
- spare wheel looks extremely pitted
- some of the metal fittings look overly coroded for such a low mileage car - the car spent most of the time in Florida...
- Parking brake doesnt work
- lights only flip down if car is on
- When putting car into drive from P it can be moved past D into 3 without pushing the release button - is this normal ?

Thanks for any feedback you can provide !



I've included some pictures (the white spots on the paint are salt splatter) :

FredR

Based on what you have posted it looks promising.

That being said there are so many caveats you really need to do some reading- particularly the thread for new or potential owners.

Golden rule with 928's is have a PPI done by someone who knows these cars- there are some listers in your neck of the woods.

The auto box lever pushes directly into third but not into reverse of course.

With the 928 service history is everything. A detailed dossier or service book with main dealer stamps says a lot. Low miles examples does not mean low problems- far from it. The primary concerns would be if there are signs the car has not seen a maintenance shop for years on end.

Mechanically the main "achilles heel" items are the flex plate clamp that all too often loses grip and slips leading to the drive shaft growing in length and eventually causes the thrust bearing to be a disc brake and wrecks the engine [search TBF]. The other item most often referred is the water pump/timing belt. Many of us believe it is wise to change the timing belt every 4 or 5 years and the water pump every other belt change irrespective of mileage. The Porsche recommended interval is 100k km but lack of use does rubber belts no good at all. The engine wiring harness is probably crispy by now. If the coolant is not changed regularly there can be issues with the head gasket, heads and cylinders. The list of potential age related failures is quite extensive and useage wear items are typical as with most cars.

Regarding wheels stock items can be found but the problem with the 16 inch wheels is the limited selection of rubber available, especially for the rears. After market wheels typically have incorrect front offsets- if the ones on the car are after market chances are they will have an offset of 55mm or less. This does not seem to bother many, personally I would not touch them but that is me.

Your photos of the rear half shaft gaiters suggests one of them may have been replaced but not all of them- this suggests maintenance of the car may not be all it should be.

If the car is the real deal then you should allow at least US3k for deferred maintenance. If it has not been looked after correctly then the sky is the limit wth these things.

Rgds

Fred

Adk46

The condition of the car is important, but the major factor to consider when buying a 928 is yourself. Do you enjoy adventure? The good, the bad, the sense of accomplishment? Will you enjoy the work, or spend the money?

You've already done something very good by coming to this forum. When I decided to get a 928, I read the new visitor thread but otherwise acted rather impulsively. I was mostly lucky, but was reasonably prepared to be unlucky - that's my sense of adventure! I got all the help I needed here to bring it up to a high standard.

If you can wait until June 17, there is an opportunity to learn first hand from some of the best, and not far from you - check out the "sticky" thread on Camp 928.

linderpat

Interesting choice of what you focused on for the photos, and whoever drove it in the salt should have their head chopped off (just kidding - I'm guessing it was driven to a shop for a ppi).
The bent rails underneath are not a problem, and from the one picture, do not look bad. They are not frame rails (car is unibody, no frame), but the channels for the seats up above. Always lift by the jackpoints.
The other things you mention are not that big either - the running issue could be vacuum related, MAF related, or from just sitting without being driven. The lights are acting normal, as is the shifter. The hatch release is a simple adjustment or a new insert from Roger.
Post more picutres of the interior, and of the car from a distance, so that we can see it all. The engine bay looks very nice, and comports with the stated mileage - ie, what you would expect a low mileage engine bay to look like.
This may be a very good find - mayl still need a top end and fuel line refresh, and may be timing belt job. Any old receipts?
How much?

hlee96

In addition to the important questions above, have you checked the VIN for salvage/theft/flood records? How did a car from Florida end up in Montreal? Was someone trying to "wash" the vin? Reasons are that there are bits that confirm the low mileage, while others showing longterm outside exposure or wetness (spare tire/wrench) from Florida.

As Ed ask, how much are they asking? How much are you prepare to purchase before putting the money into the important replacements? Fuel lines, power steering lines, etc.

Good luck,
Hoi

GeorgeM

That first pic of the cross brace end looks odd to me.... it looks crooked. Should the bracket not be more parallel to the fender edge? It also looks like it has been removed and replaced in a different position, allowing previously unexposed paint to show.

Perhaps it's just the angle.

Mrmerlin

after you get this car figure about 17K to 20K in repairs to bring it to pristine daily driver status.
MMs OPG, intake refresh with fresh powder coating ,cam covers powder coated , fuel lines ,trans lines, AC refresh, new brakes, t belt, water pump, tires
looks like a great starting point

SeanR

Run a carfax and see if there is any information about mileage/inspections in the past. This car appears to me to have way more than 30k miles on it.

Adamant1971

Looks like a nice example. I would make a deal with the following conditions (PPI):

1: Crank shaft end play check
2: Leak down test (warm engine)
3: Paint meter all panels
4: Confirm mileage with service records and/or carfax
5: If the car was ever registered in Ontario get a UVIP to check the title

If that all checks out, then do all the work as per Mr. Merlin's post above.

Good luck!

And I agree with Sean, the mileage is suspect with the condition we are seeing. Does the odometer work?

James Bailey

Obviously it is NOT a reliable jump in and drive it anywhere car at this point in time but is a project . It all depends on how badly you want to have a 928s and if you are OK with SPENDING thousands of dollars fixing it knowing that much of that will add little to the market value.
. As
mentioned you need to enjoy the journey

Rob Roy

Looks way more than 30k miles.
What do the seat bolsters look like?

Guy

Wow. Tough crowd here but that's exactly what you want when looking to purchase.

I have seen 30k cars look worse and 80k cars look better. All depends on the usage and care it received during those mIles.

some overall and interior shots would be helpful

huskeric

looks like a respray - battery box and a good deal of the undercarriage appears to have overspray... mine certainly doesn't have this amount...

pozzello

Thanks everyone for jumping in - the more critical the better

The car is not for sale in Montreal - I'm in the New York tristate area for a while taking care of my mother who recently had a stroke.

The seller wants in the mid $30k, which seems low for a car with that mileage. I plan on driving it and don't mind spending some $$ to fix it up, but I want to avoid any major surprises. The carfax seems ok, I think (I'm attaching a copy), though it seems to have had quite a number of owners.

Interesting comment about the respray, the seller offered to scan all the panels with a meter and claims they all check out.

I would require a PPI before purchase but even those can be hit or miss.

I'm posting a few more pictures of the car and part of the carfax report :

davek9

IMHO:

- car appears to have been improperly jacked and the lower sub frame is dented/deformed - is this a big deal ?
* No and very very few w/o dents, they are not the frame but part of Floor structure.
- small crack in dash and slightly warped,
* most are worse from Temp changes and sitting in the sun,
- looks like aftermarket made in Italy cup style wheels - are original wheels still available new ?
* Yes new can be purchased, plenty on used market, as noticed tires are a different story.
- exhaust tip looks high up
* hard to tell for pic posted however it should not touch the body.
- trunk release whirls but trunk has to be opened with key.
* many do not work, this one doesn't sound to be a serious fix as noted in above post.
- I took it for a test drive and the idle is very low and surges, and it stalled twice.
* needs a proper tune-up and all the sensors need to be tested
- spare wheel looks extremely pitted
* more signs of sitting outside/dampness inside or car was under water or leaks badly.
- some of the metal fittings look overly corroded for such a low mileage car - the car spent most of the time in Florida...
* more of the same moisture issue, sitting outside in salt air is not a good thing for unprotected metal.
- Parking brake doesn't work
* nothing that $ wont fix
- lights only flip down if car is on.
* as said that is normal, the ignition switch must be On when lights are turned off, this is a feature so they can be cleaned and serviced.
- When putting car into drive from P it can be moved past D into 3 without pushing the release button - is this normal ?
* yes
To me the car looks like a low mileage car from the underside and the engine compartment which is unmolested, hoses and wires in the correct place however one that has not see any major or regular service, so be prepared once you start driving it for other things to show up.

1. Does the engine maintain a steady coolant temp when left sitting at idle for 15 to 20 mins or so, yes OK to blip the throttle every now and then, should not over heat but go to around 2/3 the way up the gauge. Oil pressure should be steady ~ 2bar at 800 RPM (when HOT).
2. Does the Heat and AC work?
3. How did it drive and stop, anti-lock work?
4. Any clunking noises when cornering?
5 Look at all the warning lights in the dash (just turn Key on don't start), do they all light up?

On this one, its tough call unless you have a good PPI done by a local 928 nut and or have known history.
I'd be prepared to have a Head Gasket job in the near future and all the fluids flushed based on it sitting and no service history.

Stan's $ amounts are about right all depending how far you want to go, I'd make it safe and dependable first starting with Full brake job including E-brake and fluid flush.
They are great and dependable rides once sorted out, remember its the Time and how the car was cared for, not the millage on an '88.

Edit: I see the brakes were checked and fluid changed along with other fluids 4 years ago so all due once again, wondering why the e-brake wasn't serviced too (cost $ I'm thinking).

Car looks outstanding from those Pic's

Good luck,

Dave K