HIGHWAYMAN: Bringing the Devore 928 back from the dead
11-24-2017, 09:44 AM
#886
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Most of the cars in this video do not have actual historic racing history other than vintage events. Some exceptions like one of orange 69 Corvette's which belongs to a friend of mine, ran at Daytona 24 back in the day.
11-24-2017, 11:27 AM
#887
Rainman
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1) guess this answers the "gain 100hp from intake manifold change?" thread
2) all that needs to be done (aside from the hood height question) to make this manifold more suitable to say a 5.0 engine vs the 6.5 tested is make the runner ID smaller.
awesome thread/project, and awesome results from 928MS/Catorce.
2) all that needs to be done (aside from the hood height question) to make this manifold more suitable to say a 5.0 engine vs the 6.5 tested is make the runner ID smaller.
awesome thread/project, and awesome results from 928MS/Catorce.
11-24-2017, 01:02 PM
#888
Banned
Thread Starter
I'm going to guess Greg is not very familiar with the vintage racing scene. This is one of the most popular Vintage run classes: Group 6.... yup, just a boring parade laps
Most of the cars in this video do not have actual historic racing history other than vintage events. Some exceptions like one of orange 69 Corvette's which belongs to a friend of mine, ran at Daytona 24 back in the day.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hVXsL7kDrsE
Most of the cars in this video do not have actual historic racing history other than vintage events. Some exceptions like one of orange 69 Corvette's which belongs to a friend of mine, ran at Daytona 24 back in the day.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hVXsL7kDrsE
Now THAT is my kind of racing! Love it!
11-25-2017, 10:22 PM
#890
Developer
I'm going to make a cant-roof version of this intake manifold next. It will be lower at the front than at the back, so that the whole thing will fit under a stock 928 hood.
Compared to this manifold, the intake runner lengths will vary in length front-to-back so the power curve will be even broader, although the peak HP may not be quite as high.
That will be better for street driving, although I need to say that, because of the smooth idle and response this manifold already exhibited, we think this one can also be driven on the street without a problem too.
For those that would rather have a "power bump" in the hood, I am working on an after-market fiberglass hood with a 2" riser in it just for this manifold.
Compared to this manifold, the intake runner lengths will vary in length front-to-back so the power curve will be even broader, although the peak HP may not be quite as high.
That will be better for street driving, although I need to say that, because of the smooth idle and response this manifold already exhibited, we think this one can also be driven on the street without a problem too.
For those that would rather have a "power bump" in the hood, I am working on an after-market fiberglass hood with a 2" riser in it just for this manifold.
11-25-2017, 11:27 PM
#891
Rainman
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Carl,
Cool video, sounds mean.
For the canted top version, maybe recess the forward runners "up" into the plenum a bit so they remain equal length? Bellmouths would get closer to the "roof" of the box but looks like you've got a few inches to play with.
Cool video, sounds mean.
For the canted top version, maybe recess the forward runners "up" into the plenum a bit so they remain equal length? Bellmouths would get closer to the "roof" of the box but looks like you've got a few inches to play with.
11-27-2017, 12:40 AM
#892
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Thanks for the motor music!
Cant wait to see this thing run. Any chance it will put the hammer down at Road America for the Elkhart Lake Vintage Festival?
Hint, September 14-16... A short drive from Carl's...
Cant wait to see this thing run. Any chance it will put the hammer down at Road America for the Elkhart Lake Vintage Festival?
Hint, September 14-16... A short drive from Carl's...
11-27-2017, 08:35 AM
#893
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Hmm....
You might dream or wish your 928 into being a piece of history, but it's just another dream that never did anything.
And you want to continue that history.
There was certainly a whole pile of bullsh!t about this car....750 horsepower from a two valve engine. Never could or did happen. Simply not possible to get that much air through any 928 2 valve head....we all knew that (and laughed) when this claim was made.
You probably dont know how that horsepower was "calculated", right?
Well, it was calculated backwards from some arbitrary fuel consumption....nothing that was ever actually measured!
In short, complete bullsh!t.
You need to study Mark Anderson's lap times, at Willow...Getting into the low 20's was a piece of cake....and pissing off 25 million dollars worth of 911 RSR and Cup Car owners every weekend using one set of recycled trash can slicks was some of the very best stuff ever done at POC!
Because of that, Mark's old car is a REAL piece of 928 history...he won the Porsche Cup by using that car....against dozens of drivers with 911s. (And the list of people who have won the Porsche Cup is pretty exclusive company.)
To me, it seems like you could have just stuck in a stock 5.0, saved a whole bunch of money, and had the same result.....a long time unproven hanger queen that has been re-invented into another unproven hanger queen.
However, I do understand your thought process....you never will have to prove anything you've done to this car actually works.
And that will be a whole bunch less embarrassing, for all involved.
You might dream or wish your 928 into being a piece of history, but it's just another dream that never did anything.
And you want to continue that history.
There was certainly a whole pile of bullsh!t about this car....750 horsepower from a two valve engine. Never could or did happen. Simply not possible to get that much air through any 928 2 valve head....we all knew that (and laughed) when this claim was made.
You probably dont know how that horsepower was "calculated", right?
Well, it was calculated backwards from some arbitrary fuel consumption....nothing that was ever actually measured!
In short, complete bullsh!t.
You need to study Mark Anderson's lap times, at Willow...Getting into the low 20's was a piece of cake....and pissing off 25 million dollars worth of 911 RSR and Cup Car owners every weekend using one set of recycled trash can slicks was some of the very best stuff ever done at POC!
Because of that, Mark's old car is a REAL piece of 928 history...he won the Porsche Cup by using that car....against dozens of drivers with 911s. (And the list of people who have won the Porsche Cup is pretty exclusive company.)
To me, it seems like you could have just stuck in a stock 5.0, saved a whole bunch of money, and had the same result.....a long time unproven hanger queen that has been re-invented into another unproven hanger queen.
However, I do understand your thought process....you never will have to prove anything you've done to this car actually works.
And that will be a whole bunch less embarrassing, for all involved.
Åke
http://www.enginelabs.com/news/video...-stock-engine/
http://dartheads.com/wp-content/uplo...r-Head-H69.pdf
11-27-2017, 09:07 AM
#894
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May 18 - 20: SVRA
July 19 - 22: Brian Redman International Challenge. If you are only going to attend one event, this is the one to do. One of the largest vintage racing events in the world (based on car entry count). It would be awesome to see the Devore car stroll into town on Friday night in the race car parade into Elkhart Lake. This parade is the highlight of the racing season in Elkhart Lake.
Sept 14-16: VSCDA. This event has grown quite a bit over the years with a Concure on the lawn of the Otshoff, but doesn't come close to rivaling the July event.
The May & September events are much more laid back compared to the July weekend. May much more so than even September, much lower car count. A good weekend to "break in" your experience driving Road America. If coming back to Wisconsin can be a regular thing, maybe hold off & do the July event the second time around. However, if coming this far is a "once in a lifetime" weekend, do July for sure.
I'm 45 minutes from Elkhart Lake. If you need any help with logistics and planning such a weekend, let me know.
11-27-2017, 01:15 PM
#895
Developer
I don’t think many race engine dyno operators start pulls under 4000 rpm. I think this is because for most race engines, what it makes is irrelevant and also because many race engines can’t actually take WOT safely at low rpms.
Here we are on an engine dyno, and this particular dyno has a brake large enough to bring a 1500 HP motor to a stop. So Bob (the dyno operator you can see at the controls in the video) is careful not to bring the load in too soon and stall the engine. He said he didn't like to pound on the rod bearings that low in the rpm's, and I agreed with him because 1) my job is to deliver a fresh ready-to-race motor to my customer, not one with beat-up rod bearings and 2) he's the dyno operator and I'm not going to argue with him. I assume his years of experience operating an engine dyno has told him what not to do, and that's good enough for me. It's why you hire experts instead of doing everything yourself, after all.
So, being the only possible benefit was getting some torque data from 3000 rpm to 4300 rpm, and that Adam is my customer, and that is not what he hired me for, I didn't push it. You will just have to use the data we have and extrapolate the torque back into the lower rpm numbers.
Last edited by Carl Fausett; 11-28-2017 at 10:19 AM.
11-28-2017, 01:45 PM
#896
Drifting
And when he does, I'm sure it'll give the tricked-out ITB motors a run for their money.
11-29-2017, 12:05 AM
#897
Rennlist Member
Hacker,
Thats a great offer, I'll be honored to take you up on it since I have not been there in a few years and I doubt I'd get a room at Siebkens!
Were you there for the 2006 Group 6 race and the horrific carnage on the front straight?
FWIW, When I was a teenager, the Brian Redman races were called the Chicago Historic's and they were a blast. Early on, I ran around taking pictures and then befriended Weerner Timpte, Peter Revson, Augie and Marcia Pabst and got guest tickets and even pit passesI. Lots of great times! I do have some seat time under my belt at Road America in various Porsches and 240 Z's but have not driven there since a few years before the Billy Mitchell bridge was removed and the uphill from Canada Corner became so much friendlier.
Carl and Catorce/Adam, If you do enter the Devore car, I'll be happy to bring a fire suit/helmet/gloves and hustle as a gopher!
Regards to all involved with this project!
Thats a great offer, I'll be honored to take you up on it since I have not been there in a few years and I doubt I'd get a room at Siebkens!
Were you there for the 2006 Group 6 race and the horrific carnage on the front straight?
FWIW, When I was a teenager, the Brian Redman races were called the Chicago Historic's and they were a blast. Early on, I ran around taking pictures and then befriended Weerner Timpte, Peter Revson, Augie and Marcia Pabst and got guest tickets and even pit passesI. Lots of great times! I do have some seat time under my belt at Road America in various Porsches and 240 Z's but have not driven there since a few years before the Billy Mitchell bridge was removed and the uphill from Canada Corner became so much friendlier.
Carl and Catorce/Adam, If you do enter the Devore car, I'll be happy to bring a fire suit/helmet/gloves and hustle as a gopher!
Regards to all involved with this project!
11-29-2017, 12:23 AM
#898
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I've never stayed at Siebkens or The Victorian Village - only The Osthoff or at friends houses near Elkhart. It's best to call all three at the end of the year / January to get on the list or get a lucky already open room
Karl "Fritz" Schiffmayer in the Cobra, I met him a few times over the years. It's not difficult to find the paddock location with three original Shelby Cobra's, one of which he owned since new. He broke his wrist in that crash. He passed away in 2010.
I started attending this event in 1986 and haven't missed one yet!! Somewhere is a VHS tape of the parade / concourse in 1987. For the life of me I cannot find it. Complete with Marchetti and his replica P4
11-29-2017, 01:16 PM
#899
Banned
Thread Starter
Thanks for the offer of help, sounds like a fun event!
The Devore car's roller chassis is right here in Southern California, however, waiting to be united with it's heart transplant!
Not sure if I'll ever take it as far as Elkhart lake, but legendary track for sure......
The Devore car's roller chassis is right here in Southern California, however, waiting to be united with it's heart transplant!
Not sure if I'll ever take it as far as Elkhart lake, but legendary track for sure......
11-29-2017, 01:42 PM
#900
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Boo, I do not accept this answer.
The July event is so big, I'm sure there is a transporter or two headed this way from SoCal you could hitch a ride on & share pit space.
Or just toss it on any old transporter, delivered to my friends Corvette shop 10 miles away. We just need to prearranged a spot in their storage side until the event then we can handle the logistics of moving it to the track. Hell, wouldn't be the first time we've driven a full race car down highway 67!
......We have trailers
I can be track side with multiple canopies and all the tools needed.
You'll most likely be slotted into Group 10 which contains 962's and 993 cup cars. It's a "catch all" group for all the newer stuff and cars way too fast for slower groups. One year a LeMans backup C5R showed up and wiped the floor with the field.
Your sub class might contain things like Audi R8 factory race cars and my friends 993 Turbo. The same 993 which can be seen in Mark Anderson's PCA videos from Elkhart Lake pulling away like Mark dropped anchor.
The July event is so big, I'm sure there is a transporter or two headed this way from SoCal you could hitch a ride on & share pit space.
Or just toss it on any old transporter, delivered to my friends Corvette shop 10 miles away. We just need to prearranged a spot in their storage side until the event then we can handle the logistics of moving it to the track. Hell, wouldn't be the first time we've driven a full race car down highway 67!
......We have trailers
I can be track side with multiple canopies and all the tools needed.
You'll most likely be slotted into Group 10 which contains 962's and 993 cup cars. It's a "catch all" group for all the newer stuff and cars way too fast for slower groups. One year a LeMans backup C5R showed up and wiped the floor with the field.
Your sub class might contain things like Audi R8 factory race cars and my friends 993 Turbo. The same 993 which can be seen in Mark Anderson's PCA videos from Elkhart Lake pulling away like Mark dropped anchor.