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A POS SE

 
Old 08-29-2016, 03:31 AM
  #1  
h2pmr
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way back in November 2012 I waved goodbye to my red SE as it started its journey to Mr Tyson (hope she is still going well Roger)

and then in early 2014 I got the opportunity to buy another SE from the head of 928.org no less, so went down to see it.

now we both knew its condition, in need of TLC or as the title says, depending on your point of view and how far away you were looking at it.

the good bits:
it was a matching numbers SE
the interior was original
it was one of only 4 silver SE's made

the bad bits:
the paintwork looked like it had been polished with wire wool and it had been badly re-sprayed, probably more than once
none standard wheels, exhaust tail pipe, steering wheel.
head lining was sagging badly
leather on dash had shrunk
looked a little rusty on the underside...
MOT expired in 2011, so not been on road since then
next to no service history
no service book
147k miles

anyway the deal was struck and I brought it back home in march 2014, and started to make a long list of parts needed to get her back to original condition.

now from the outset this was going to be a SYMPATHETIC restoration, unlike my orange 928, see "smoking and a 928 thread"

as much of what was original was going to be saved, cleaned, repaired and refitted.
I could have gone down the route of a full concourse restoration -nothing to do with money- but making it look like it just came out of the showroom and smelling like new would I think somehow loose its whole charm and the stories the interior alone could tell if it could talk make it all the more interesting a 928 to own.

so its now February 2015 and I slowly start to strip the interior to start the long process of cleaning- the blessing and curse of black leather, it never looks grubby but it certainly is when you use a white cloth to clean it.

then in march I take it to my place of work and put it on a 2 post lift to start the project.

as it had not run in years and no service history the first jobs were:
cambelt, waterpump, antifreeze, 12k service, g/box diff oil, brake and clutch fluid, drain fuel tank and fill with new fuel, new battery and GREG BROWN ENGINE FUEL HOSE KIT-there was no way I was going through another 928 going up in smoke like my other one- see above thread.

now to see if it starts, a few cranks of the engine and it starts and runs great.
once its up to temp and the fans kick in I give it a gentle test drive and even the clutch and gearbox great, well as great as an 88 5 speed 928 gets anyway.

as with any major restoration, START WITH THE BODY WORK, which in my case was an easy decision, no amount of polish was going to save the paintwork so a full windows out re-spray it was going to be.
so all the interior and bodywork was stripped out so as no masked edges would be seen.
even got a great local paintless dent removal guy to go around it and take all the small dents out so as no filler would be needed.
it did need a hole in the p/s sill to be patched up but that would be covered by the plastic sill covers.

now the end of march and it gets pushed to the bodyshop to get the full respray - same bodyshop that did my orange one so I knew they would do a great job.

more to follow.
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Old 08-29-2016, 04:16 AM
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so while its at the body shop it gives me time to clean and repair the interior.

ALL interior panels and carpets got a deep clean, there are a lot of carpet pieces when you fully strip a 928.

I thought the headlining would be relatively easy to repair- just a case of peel the leather off and rebond but as those that have done it know there is a layer of foam between leather and the hard board backing so getting it peeled back without damaging the foam is quite a mission, but after a few hours it was eventually sorted.

the leather on the dash was also tricky as I said I wanted to save it to keep it original but wanted the stitching to be a nice straight line.

so I had to peel the leather off and sort of stretch it up so it would fit under the to vents- there is just enough "spare" leather that fits over the bottom edge of the dash to do it but it then creates a crease in the middle of the dash, so had to cut it to make it fit, I am happy its a fully original leather dash board and I am happy with the result.

door panel arm rests got the repair kit fitted and all new panel securing clips so when it goes back together it is clean and all looks and works like it should, but still has the patina of originality.

also time to repair the parts removed from the bumpers and put new bearings in the air pump + many many other repair jobs.

yes I know I should have started this thread when I started the restoration,
but I prefer using my hands to work on a 928.

so now its "just" a case of putting it all back together....

now having done the orange one I sort of know my way around a 928, but it still takes time to do things properly and being a sad old git I keep a record of all the time I have spent on it and so far the stripping, cleaning and repairing has taken 234 hours.

just need it back from the bodyshop now.

more pictures at:
http://s244.photobucket.com/user/phi...?sort=3&page=1


more to follow.
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Old 08-29-2016, 04:27 AM
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Please go on, Steve!

Thank you for the explanations and the pictures
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Old 08-29-2016, 05:27 AM
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is now the end of july 2015 and I get her back from the bodyshop and the paint work is fantastic

so back on the 2 post lift and start to clean off the overspray on the underside of it - I hate to see overspray

also gives me a chance to give the underside/ mechanicals a good look over,
very very rusty, not the actual shell, which is a testimony to Porsche's under seal but pretty much everything else, fuel tank support rotten, fuel pipes have been joined with copper pipe, even the main front cross member is actually holed by corrosion

so make another long list of parts needed for the underside rebuild.

while its all in pieces its a good time to check and repair all the wiring that has been botched with different radios and alarm systems over the years and bring it back to standard and even got an original amp with its original connectors and joined it all up to the car using the original type of felt wiring loom tape - small details like this will never be seen but gives me job satisfaction to see it looking original.

as with the whole project its the small details that most would not notice that makes a big difference to the whole finished article.

but back to getting it looking like a 928, start with the easy parts, fit out the tailgate, all nicely cleaned trim panels with new securing clips, very slight marks still on them and the main trim part that has the rear sun visors on it is slightly warped and the original tailgate glass has many scratches on it, but in my eyes it is just how I want it, original looking, not perfect but everything still works just as it should

the rest of the rebuild of the interior is just putting it back together in the right order and making sure you do all the jobs that are far easier when its in pieces i.e fitting new clutch master cylinder, fitting new headlight adjuster pipes etc,etc.
and making sure all the electrical parts work as they should, checking the havac system when the dash etc is out is far easier than finding the air temp sniffer is noisy when its all back together.

interior done now down to the exterior bodywork, far easier to drill out the front tow eye plug before fitting the bumper.
new beading for the bumpers and new mounting plates and its again "just" a case of bolting it all back together

needed a new front screen-cracked when taking it out and the black trims had to be replaced because of being bent but the rest of the glass was reused, and all the other original glass surround trims were refitted, slight scratches again make it look nice and original, it just all the rubber seals that got replaced, so no leaks, so far.

p/s/f seat piping had turned to white so again "just" needed masking up and spraying with red vinyl paint, but the piping on the other seats had actually started to crack and flake off so had to get the piping replaced by a local trim specialist, and now looks fantastic - picture below was before I got the d/s/f seat re-piped

and its all back together

many more pictures of the rebuild -5 pages
http://s244.photobucket.com/user/phi...?sort=2&page=1

more to follow
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Old 08-29-2016, 06:16 AM
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Great thread and an inspiration to others who are going through similar work.

look forward to seeing more posts
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Old 08-29-2016, 06:59 AM
  #6  
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forgot to say total time spent just on the above rebuild part was 220 hours

now its the end of April this year and I take her back to work for the major part of the rebuild, the underside mechanicals.

when I looked at her last year and thought about it, this part would be a major job and it has been.

first job, replace the bodged fixed fuel pipes and very rusty breather pipes

I think when Porsche built the 928 they got a bare shell and the first job was fit the 2 fuel and 2 breather pipes then build the rest of the car.

anybody that has fitted the pipes knows that to do it properly its just a case of remove everything, fit the pipes-with new securing clips and then fit it all back together, but in my case once the pipes were on it was a case of replace most of everything I had removed as it was just too rusty to save.

below pictures will show what I mean.

but with it fully stripped it was very satisfying to gradually rebuild it with new/second hand parts and see it slowly come together.

taking the p/s/r as an example:
every nut and bolt was removed, all the accumulated crap was cleaned out from behind the wheel arch liners and all the surface rust was cleaned from the bodywork and then it was covered in many coats of wax oil.
also a great time to replace the driveshaft boots
all parts of the mechanicals were stripped, cleaned and reassembled using 90% new nuts and bolts, new shock pins, rear springs, rear anti roll bar mounts and bushes, etc, etc all new brake friction's replaced, callipers overhauled, but NOT repainted ( they were not badly flaking off so again they look nice and original to a 1988 example of a 928)
and all then "just" reassembled and then they were coated in many coats of wax oil- not the discs obviously.
so times the above by 4 and I am now about half way through the mechanical rebuild....

next is the front cross member removal, and an ideal time to do the sump gasket.
note, the only parts that I fitted that were not Porsche parts were the silicone sump gasket, Rogers solid engine mounts, polly front A arm bushes, Greg's fuel hoses and a porkensioner.

anyway back to the sump, as can be seen below it still has the original "clubsport" hand written on the sump -just like the sump on the red SE I sold to roger- so was careful not to wash it off in the parts washer.

also the ideal time to overhaul the steering rack and fit a genuine SE alternator AND an original SE plastic cowl -sorry Samuel I don't have a spare.

with all that back together it was just a case of doing the small jobs that usually get over looked, fitting new CO test pipes to the exhaust manifold, fitting the correct clutch flex pipe and mounting bracket, fitting rubber end piece to metal tank vent, also see page 627 post 9392 of the post a picture thread

more pictures of the state of the underside, before and after:

http://s244.photobucket.com/user/phi...?sort=3&page=1

http://s244.photobucket.com/user/phi...?sort=3&page=1

http://s244.photobucket.com/user/phi...?sort=3&page=1

http://s244.photobucket.com/user/phi...?sort=3&page=1

http://s244.photobucket.com/user/phi...?sort=3&page=1

time spent doing all of the above was 267 hours

many more things done to her but I cannot remember them all but in the middle of june it got its MOT and was on the road

more to follow
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Old 08-29-2016, 07:27 AM
  #7  
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so its today, the end of August and she is back at home, have done very approx. 1k happy miles in my silver SE.

also forgot to say, if you search " silver 928 se interior " on youtube you can see the finished interior , I am no film director....

advice for anyone thinking about doing a 928 project:
1)don't
2)if you still want to do it,budget what you think it will cost and then at the least double it
3)get a workshop manual
4)get a torque wrench and use it


still to do to the old girl - next years projects:
reinstate the A/C system
fit new original red bogie shock absorbers
fit original SE springs -I bought a pair of new ones from Porsche a few years ago

thanks to:
1) Roger Tyson for your help and parts supply -would have got more from you if the pound/dollar rate was not so crap.

2) Porsche for building such a great car in the first place and still supplying most of the parts needed - still totally amazes me what you can still buy.

3) rennlist, a great source of information, a special thanks to Rob Edwards for making the list of nut/bolt torque settings.

will be updating the smoking and a 928 thread early next year on its 10th birthday, with a total hours spent on her and a total cost of the project, SO FAR.....

both are now at home, in the garage, have been guard X'ed and are under their fitted covers until next year.

happy 928 motoring to all

cheers
Phil
88 SE silver 98% finished
90 GT orange don't ask....
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Old 08-29-2016, 07:43 AM
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Hmm, are you sure that you have the correct SE springs?
I ask because to my knowledge the orange markings springs were only used on preproduction CS, and no SE or production CS has them.

And I don't write this because I try to find such a set of springs for my toy!

I will try to find the right document to prove my point.
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Old 08-29-2016, 07:54 AM
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part number of springs are 928 343 511 12, they have the orange paint mark on them.
I bought them from local OPC about 7-8 years ago and have been on my orange car ever since

cheers
Phil
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Old 08-29-2016, 08:25 AM
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Please have a look at the workshop manual, volume IV, page 40-46.
At the bottom of the page, there is an asterisk on the line of the group 1 (1 brown marking) spring rate.

On the French version of this document, it is written:
"*Pour la 928 S4, version "Clubsport", seuls les ressorts du groupe 1 peuvent être utilisés. Certains véhicules des séries zéro ont équipés de ressorts plus durs (1X orange). Pour un remplacement de ce type, changer le ressort droit et le ressort gauche (1X marron)."

The translation is:
*For the 928 S4, Clubsport version, only springs from group 1 should be used. Some vehicles from the zero series had been fitted with harder springs (1X orange). For a replacement of this type, change the right and left spring (1X brown).

The note is missing on the English version of the wokshop manual that I have.

Zero series are prototypes and/or preproduction cars. At least, this is what I have understood, from various sources.

I send you both documents by email, ASAP.

Last edited by 928cs; 08-29-2016 at 08:47 AM.
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Old 08-29-2016, 08:30 AM
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Great job Phil! Nice save, and looking forward to continuing to follow.
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Old 08-29-2016, 09:25 AM
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That is excellent. Congratulations, very inspiring
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Old 08-29-2016, 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted by h2pmr View Post
...

also the ideal time to overhaul the steering rack and fit a genuine SE alternator AND an original SE plastic cowl -sorry Samuel I don't have a spare.

...
I have missed this also!


As far as I know, the CS & SE have a regular alternator. The lightweight alternator was only designed for cars without AC. And no production car was delivered without AC

I'm 99% sure about that.
With the removal of the AC system, you can have a lighter (50 A/h) battery, and replace the AC pulley by a spacer.

My toy has no more AC and I have made a spacer (the original is NLA from Porsche). I already have a brand new alternator and just need to find the ventilation cowl for it
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Old 08-29-2016, 01:40 PM
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My SE is still sitting in the garage and comes out occasional. A real garage queen. Mostly thanks to you Phil.
Awesome job and another SE saved. You are a true enthusiast with the patience of a saint and a wallet to match 8>).
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Old 08-29-2016, 02:30 PM
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I'm delighted that Phil has restored this car which I bought and drove for a while but was beyond my capability. The rarity of the Silver SE, (only 4 and at least one has had a new non SP engine) and the fact that these are the pinnacle of the 928 experience my opinion made it worth rescuing. Phil was good enough to bring it over for me to see the work he had done and it was literally unrecognisable - perfect paint - lovely sympathetic restoration of the interior, proper attention to all the right details. It will surely last for decades now!

Angus
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PS This is my first post on rennlist since it was porschefans - but Phils work deserves it !
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