Electric Supercharger/Super Bilge Blower???
08-02-2005, 11:14 PM
#136
Nordschleife Master
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Originally Posted by mulik51
Who did the super/turbo combo? Just interested about the results...
Klim
Klim
It's done with a clutched roots or twinscrew blower for low end torque (and throttle response on diesels) and a turbo for higher or stable rpms. Solenoid actuated throttle bodies or wastegate-like bypass devices keep one system from back-feeding the other.
08-02-2005, 11:14 PM
#137
Race Car
Originally Posted by mark kibort
It works for all the right reasons, but it has its limitations. My research has shown that 250 rear wheel hp is the upper limit range (ie 300flywheel hp )
MK
MK
A 250 rear wheel limit would rule a lot of us out.
08-03-2005, 12:04 AM
#139
Rennlist Member
yes, i said that. the additional air matched with additional fuel. thats how you get the gains.
the problem with the thomas knight gear, is that they have to use 100lbs of batteries and other hardware. for how elaborate the set up, why not just install a belt and a vortex!
Intersting, the other electric supercharger using a vortex style blower (turbodyne) created 3psi at 100cfm, and 1psi at 300 cfm. for the same power input, the eRAM matche the gains, and was $1000 less cash. remember, we are talking about 1psi, (5% or so) not 14.7Psi, or 1 bar boost!
MK
the problem with the thomas knight gear, is that they have to use 100lbs of batteries and other hardware. for how elaborate the set up, why not just install a belt and a vortex!
Intersting, the other electric supercharger using a vortex style blower (turbodyne) created 3psi at 100cfm, and 1psi at 300 cfm. for the same power input, the eRAM matche the gains, and was $1000 less cash. remember, we are talking about 1psi, (5% or so) not 14.7Psi, or 1 bar boost!
MK
Originally Posted by Ketchmi
Hey Mark, on Thomas's website and history, he uses 20 horsepower worth of electrical energy to provide 8psi on a 3 liter. He had a long tough time designing 3 starter motors to be able to turn fast and hard enough to turn the supercharger. That's 8psi on a 3 liter, not near 14.7 psi on a 5 liter........
The horsepower gains you speak of are created by additional fuel, not just compressing the intake air. "On dragsters, 1khp creates 5k hp." With judicial use of nitro-methane!
Customer, I'll be back.....
The horsepower gains you speak of are created by additional fuel, not just compressing the intake air. "On dragsters, 1khp creates 5k hp." With judicial use of nitro-methane!
Customer, I'll be back.....
08-03-2005, 12:06 AM
#140
Rennlist Member
We should talk. I just love the installations with the AFM. the AFM works well because there is no fooling it. it measures mass flow accross it and deflects , then for the deflection, more fuel is added. is it a NA or a turbo. eitherway, i would love to have you test one.
MK
MK
Originally Posted by Campeck
well. yall keep talking about smaller displacement engines. you wanna send one my way and ill test it? please! 
2.5L 
2.5L
08-03-2005, 01:42 AM
#141
Rennlist Member
Hey Dave, 2 eRAMs will draw 57amps EACH!! thats over 100 amps with the voltage drops associated with that current draw.
There is a new style with more turbojet compressor style impellers that raise the pressure slightly, at slightly less air flow. we are still measuring gains on 200-220rear wheel hp engines.
installation is critical, especially the inlets to the eRAM, either bell mouthed or cone filter is fine. otherwise, 50% loss in efficiency due to a bad inlet.
as far as voltage drops for different wire guage, this depends on guage, material and length of wire. we see 60+ amps when we use 10guage wire vs the 12 guage wire. it will get warm, but thats about it. just fine for intermittant use. However, new designes will be using 10guage wire, and currents for one eRAM are in the 60 amp range
mk
There is a new style with more turbojet compressor style impellers that raise the pressure slightly, at slightly less air flow. we are still measuring gains on 200-220rear wheel hp engines.
installation is critical, especially the inlets to the eRAM, either bell mouthed or cone filter is fine. otherwise, 50% loss in efficiency due to a bad inlet.
as far as voltage drops for different wire guage, this depends on guage, material and length of wire. we see 60+ amps when we use 10guage wire vs the 12 guage wire. it will get warm, but thats about it. just fine for intermittant use. However, new designes will be using 10guage wire, and currents for one eRAM are in the 60 amp range
mk
Originally Posted by Ketchmi
The master speaks!
Hey Mark, how's it hangin'?
I did not want to get too involved in the math and formula's as I really have a lot of stuff to do instead of this. I think it's been kinda' fun though.
So you were seeing approx. a 50 amp draw with two of them? (Hmmm, not 80 Sniper....) 230rwhp uncorrected for altitude is more than 250 rwhp at sea level (approx 13/14% loss), that may be why I saw basically nothing. Then again, I never said the install was correct either. If I posted a pic of the install, people would be laughing for days. The air filter itself is pure comedy. It did function but man it's bad.
I don't tend to play too much with lower horsepower vehicles, in fact, most 928's wouldn't fall under the 250rwhp criteria. They may be functional on smaller engines but that was not the origional question.
So Mark, what do you think of the Thomas Knight electric supercharger? Read the story in the turbo magazine on his website, it has potential but is still way to in-efficient to be considered worthwhile. The idea of maximum boost at low rpm has it's plus's and minus's, major detonation being one of major minus's.
Mark, what's say you give Sniper a good deal on a couple. I want to know the outcome. I'm sure that if it's good, he'll be telling everyone. Write it off to advertising? I don't think I'd pull an Andy Keel and fly out to help him install them though, kinda' cost in-effective.
(12 gauge wire will handle 50 amps? I guess I'll rewire all my fan systems that draw 20 amps with 12 gauge wire to save money......stupid me, I've been using 10 gauge!)
Hey Mark, how's it hangin'?
I did not want to get too involved in the math and formula's as I really have a lot of stuff to do instead of this. I think it's been kinda' fun though.
So you were seeing approx. a 50 amp draw with two of them? (Hmmm, not 80 Sniper....) 230rwhp uncorrected for altitude is more than 250 rwhp at sea level (approx 13/14% loss), that may be why I saw basically nothing. Then again, I never said the install was correct either. If I posted a pic of the install, people would be laughing for days. The air filter itself is pure comedy. It did function but man it's bad.
I don't tend to play too much with lower horsepower vehicles, in fact, most 928's wouldn't fall under the 250rwhp criteria. They may be functional on smaller engines but that was not the origional question.
So Mark, what do you think of the Thomas Knight electric supercharger? Read the story in the turbo magazine on his website, it has potential but is still way to in-efficient to be considered worthwhile. The idea of maximum boost at low rpm has it's plus's and minus's, major detonation being one of major minus's.
Mark, what's say you give Sniper a good deal on a couple. I want to know the outcome. I'm sure that if it's good, he'll be telling everyone. Write it off to advertising? I don't think I'd pull an Andy Keel and fly out to help him install them though, kinda' cost in-effective.
(12 gauge wire will handle 50 amps? I guess I'll rewire all my fan systems that draw 20 amps with 12 gauge wire to save money......stupid me, I've been using 10 gauge!)
08-03-2005, 02:58 AM
#142
Ketchmi: "Mark, what's say you give Sniper a good deal on a couple. I want to know the outcome. I'm sure that if it's good, he'll be telling everyone. Write it off to advertising? I don't think I'd pull an Andy Keel and fly out to help him install them though, kinda' cost in-effective."
If Mark wants to donate two E-rams i'll install them and will gladly give my complete and honest assessment.
If they suck, believe me, i'd say so. Ask me what i think about K&N filterchargers and 'gadget' plugs/coils/wires.
If Mark wants to donate two E-rams i'll install them and will gladly give my complete and honest assessment.
If they suck, believe me, i'd say so. Ask me what i think about K&N filterchargers and 'gadget' plugs/coils/wires.
08-03-2005, 03:00 AM
#143
Mulik51:"Hey. This is kind of off-topic, but it is about forced air induction.
People do twin turbos. People do supercharging. Why nobody did try to do supercharger/turbo combo? I mean theoretically, it should be good perfomancewise, becouse the more air comes in, the more air comes out, so, the supercharger would kind of "send" the air, and turbos would kind of "catch" it. And it could be more space efficient becouse they would be mounted in different places. There is even the possibility of twin turbo/supercharger combo. Had anybody done it? Any thoughts?"
Some commercial diesel engines use(d) that set up. Namely Detriot Diesel IIRC. Philly Septa buses used a V-6 Detroit Diesel Sequentel turbo-supercharger. Not sure if the newer ones do though, been a while since i followed the commercial diesel industry.
People do twin turbos. People do supercharging. Why nobody did try to do supercharger/turbo combo? I mean theoretically, it should be good perfomancewise, becouse the more air comes in, the more air comes out, so, the supercharger would kind of "send" the air, and turbos would kind of "catch" it. And it could be more space efficient becouse they would be mounted in different places. There is even the possibility of twin turbo/supercharger combo. Had anybody done it? Any thoughts?"
Some commercial diesel engines use(d) that set up. Namely Detriot Diesel IIRC. Philly Septa buses used a V-6 Detroit Diesel Sequentel turbo-supercharger. Not sure if the newer ones do though, been a while since i followed the commercial diesel industry.
08-03-2005, 10:19 AM
#146
Three Wheelin'
Mark Kibort,
Thanks for jumping in on this thread and clearing up some things. I noticed that site admin pinned a post warning against "product promotion" unless the producer is site sponsor... I don't think you were promoting-- just clearing up questions--so I hope you didn't get a PM telling you to stop posting! I know it's a fine line, but you should be able to respond to things like defamatory comments and queries, at least.
Thanks for jumping in on this thread and clearing up some things. I noticed that site admin pinned a post warning against "product promotion" unless the producer is site sponsor... I don't think you were promoting-- just clearing up questions--so I hope you didn't get a PM telling you to stop posting! I know it's a fine line, but you should be able to respond to things like defamatory comments and queries, at least.
08-03-2005, 01:21 PM
#148
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Originally Posted by chaadster
...I noticed that site admin pinned a post warning against "product promotion" unless the producer is site sponsor...
08-03-2005, 02:57 PM
#149
Rennlist Member
No problem. If anyone could guess, i love to talk about this stuff.
Understanding the concepts, give you tools to understand many other related mods and effects on our engines. Im not trying to sell the products, only clear up confusion. There are two reasons for this. the eRAM is only really effective on our cars in pairs do to our funky intake set up, and seems to only work on the 4.7 liter engines and smaller. second, the rules of the list.
However, if anyone cares or has done anything with "ram", a single eRAM ducted from the rear of the air box could provide much more effects than any ram type or cold air system. even one eRAM on one intake tube could relieve any vacuum build up behind the air filter and give some gains.
Mk
Understanding the concepts, give you tools to understand many other related mods and effects on our engines. Im not trying to sell the products, only clear up confusion. There are two reasons for this. the eRAM is only really effective on our cars in pairs do to our funky intake set up, and seems to only work on the 4.7 liter engines and smaller. second, the rules of the list.
However, if anyone cares or has done anything with "ram", a single eRAM ducted from the rear of the air box could provide much more effects than any ram type or cold air system. even one eRAM on one intake tube could relieve any vacuum build up behind the air filter and give some gains.
Mk
Originally Posted by chaadster
Mark Kibort,
Thanks for jumping in on this thread and clearing up some things. I noticed that site admin pinned a post warning against "product promotion" unless the producer is site sponsor... I don't think you were promoting-- just clearing up questions--so I hope you didn't get a PM telling you to stop posting! I know it's a fine line, but you should be able to respond to things like defamatory comments and queries, at least.
Thanks for jumping in on this thread and clearing up some things. I noticed that site admin pinned a post warning against "product promotion" unless the producer is site sponsor... I don't think you were promoting-- just clearing up questions--so I hope you didn't get a PM telling you to stop posting! I know it's a fine line, but you should be able to respond to things like defamatory comments and queries, at least.
08-03-2005, 05:27 PM
#150
Three Wheelin'
Originally Posted by Randy V
That's been up there for over a month now, Chaad. No one has told Mark to stop posting on this topic...