'87 S4 Timing Death
#316
Burning Brakes
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My 2 cents(or even less):
Apart from the childish posts between Ken and Greg,actually hiding their skills about 928(it looks like a challenge without prize for the winner) ,I think the porkensioner here is not the culprit.Unless I lost the post where it is stated that porkensioner is the culprit
Original tensioner : archaic system.Porsche engineers kept that for almost 20 years not thinking at DIY maintainance , but regular visits to Porsche centers trained mechancs each time an idiot light glows.I do not think they over-tested that system. sure, they have did it better.
Porkensioner : can compensate belt tension more dinamically, but it cannot save the world or every 928 engine and it is no engineered to be the medicine for every 928 engine ,with different scenarios and variables.
this should be the first porkensioner failure after hundreds sold?ok, not bad really, but statistics data can be cruel, it reminds me the Concorde disaster back in 2000.Concorde managers told that , in the end, only one crashed in over 20 years.they did not mention that they made 20, like if a 737 crashes every 2 weeks. speaking of statistics, it can be bad.
In october TB job on my GTS is due: I am afraid to ask suggestions on RL , now.
Apart from the childish posts between Ken and Greg,actually hiding their skills about 928(it looks like a challenge without prize for the winner) ,I think the porkensioner here is not the culprit.Unless I lost the post where it is stated that porkensioner is the culprit
Original tensioner : archaic system.Porsche engineers kept that for almost 20 years not thinking at DIY maintainance , but regular visits to Porsche centers trained mechancs each time an idiot light glows.I do not think they over-tested that system. sure, they have did it better.
Porkensioner : can compensate belt tension more dinamically, but it cannot save the world or every 928 engine and it is no engineered to be the medicine for every 928 engine ,with different scenarios and variables.
this should be the first porkensioner failure after hundreds sold?ok, not bad really, but statistics data can be cruel, it reminds me the Concorde disaster back in 2000.Concorde managers told that , in the end, only one crashed in over 20 years.they did not mention that they made 20, like if a 737 crashes every 2 weeks. speaking of statistics, it can be bad.
In october TB job on my GTS is due: I am afraid to ask suggestions on RL , now.
#317
Captain Obvious
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The product should be able to handle variations like re surfaced heads. The proper solution is a redesign or supplying additional parts and not update to the instruction manual. Asking customers to re dril holes and pin the bolts with "something" is not an acceptable solution.
#318
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The product should be able to handle variations like re surfaced heads. The proper solution is a redesign or supplying additional parts and not update to the instruction manual. Asking customers to re dril holes and pin the bolts with "something" is not an acceptable solution.
Dave
#319
Nordschleife Master
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The product should be able to handle variations like re surfaced heads. The proper solution is a redesign or supplying additional parts and not update to the instruction manual. Asking customers to re dril holes and pin the bolts with "something" is not an acceptable solution.
I think that modification instructions for rare cases where the tensioner installs outside the range (caused by some issue changing the geometry) would be sufficient. Goes without changing that one should try to fully understand why the geometry has changed before running the engine, but if the source of the geometry change is well understood then that would work for me.
#320
Nordschleife Master
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However, say if one decks the heads and uses a thing head gasket intentionally to increase compression, then is it really that unreasonable to ask people to modify other components as well?
#321
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I agree in the standalone case of the crank gear, however if there is wear on the cam gears, oil pump gear and some slight wear in the water pump bearing - the compound effect is significant - read perfect storm.
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Does it have the "Do It Yourself" manual transmission, or the superior "Fully Equipped by Porsche" Automatic Transmission?
George Layton March 2014
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Does it have the "Do It Yourself" manual transmission, or the superior "Fully Equipped by Porsche" Automatic Transmission?
![thumbsup](https://rennlist.com/forums/graemlins/bigok.gif)
928 Owners are ".....a secret sect of quietly assured Porsche pragmatists who in near anonymity appreciate the prodigious, easy going prowess of the 928."
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#322
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I have always found Ken to be VERY supportive of all his products. He responds to customers request quickly and succinctly. As he says he has other commitments as we all do - its called life.
When changes, updates or modifications, be it hardware or nomenclature his reactions are quick.
I have already been issued with an updated installation manual and if for some reason additional hardware is required it will be issued in due course.
Ken your technical response and customer service are second to none - I appreciate that.
When changes, updates or modifications, be it hardware or nomenclature his reactions are quick.
I have already been issued with an updated installation manual and if for some reason additional hardware is required it will be issued in due course.
Ken your technical response and customer service are second to none - I appreciate that.
#323
Nordschleife Master
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If one doesn't wish to drill out the holes and space it that way, I am sure one could find a lash cap to install over the tensioner rod to take up additional slop.
Or they can modify the lever with a bolt to have an adjustable range for the piston.
Hell, Carl thought it was acceptable to tell me to hacksaw off 90% of the adjustment could off the shock to make a smaller id spring work. I didnt like his "hack" fixes so I fixed it on my own.
I don't like drilling out the holes either, but I understand why Ken does it, and I'm sure it will work. Instead, I would look first at using a lash cap.
As a side note. I just installed a PKT on an 84. It had gear wear on all gears I left them on for testing. It measured 5.21mm extension with some gear wear.
Or they can modify the lever with a bolt to have an adjustable range for the piston.
Hell, Carl thought it was acceptable to tell me to hacksaw off 90% of the adjustment could off the shock to make a smaller id spring work. I didnt like his "hack" fixes so I fixed it on my own.
I don't like drilling out the holes either, but I understand why Ken does it, and I'm sure it will work. Instead, I would look first at using a lash cap.
As a side note. I just installed a PKT on an 84. It had gear wear on all gears I left them on for testing. It measured 5.21mm extension with some gear wear.
#324
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I would too, but the point is it wasn't moving in general use, nor was it touching the belt, at least not often.
Semantics but I'd call that stuck or gummed up, which I think is how most of these end up. Mine would turn, not very nice but it'll do if the belt started hopping.
I'd just as soon it make some noise if it were actually in play regularly.
They should not turn in normal operation. There are similar rollers on other engines I have worked on. Kind of like the bumper on the car, I do not use it very often either (bumper on the truck, on the other hand...)
-Joel.
I'd just as soon it make some noise if it were actually in play regularly.
They should not turn in normal operation. There are similar rollers on other engines I have worked on. Kind of like the bumper on the car, I do not use it very often either (bumper on the truck, on the other hand...)
-Joel.
#325
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Like the current media/press my meaning was misconstrued. We were talking about wear on the crank gear and that some wear was perhaps acceptable. My point was, at the same time, that we should all be aware of the other components in the system as cumulatively it could be a problem with a stock tensioner or a PKT. A little wear on one component maybe OK but a little bit of wear on more than one component can add up to a lot of wear in the system overall.
#326
Nordschleife Master
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The OP had 9mm with everything new, except for a pretty good looking crank gear. You and I both know that new crank gears were not available for 19 months, from Porsche. I have no idea how many Portensioners are sold a month, but I'm guessing that means way too many were installed on used gears, given the current failure.
#327
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Did I miss the pictures of the water pump?
#328
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The OP had 9mm with everything new, except for a pretty good looking crank gear. You and I both know that new crank gears were not available for 19 months, from Porsche. I have no idea how many Portensioners are sold a month, but I'm guessing that means way too many were installed on used gears, given the current failure.
Slight wear on a cam gear may be OK for a low mile usage car but if the oil pump gear is worn ------
Forget I said anything!!
#329
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It is, very simply, not going to fail and allow the engine to skip cam timing, unless there is some other failure.
I've asked Ken for testing data, from the very first day he sent his first sample to Mark Anderson, asking Mark if he wanted to buy and market them.
He's never given a single bit of data...data like Jim Corenman just released (because he doesn't have any.)
Instead, he resorts to schoolboy wise cracks for a distraction. "You want cheese with that whine?"
How that trashes my credibility is beyond me....
#330
Inventor
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It was only later that I realized that this request was done at your behest, just so that you could try to gather information to trash the PKT.
It writes itself. You show your ignorance each time you post, even when you are not making stuff up.