1986 928s Excessive oil in intake / burning oil
#61
I helped a fellow Rennlister with a GT that would not turn over, just locked up for no apparent reason. We could not find the cause. He got frustrated and sold the car to another Rennlister. He tore down the motor and it was excessive carbon buildup. It had some oil control issues and the previous owners drove it pretty gently, so the buildup got so severe that it jammed the engine.
#62
Rennlist Member
Tailpipe is coated in soot, oil doesn't leave soot right? Only rich running leaves soot?
Regardless, I've turned my MAF down to 170 ohms from 905 ohms and it still smokes badly. Smoke is light blue, and does not smell of coolant (sweet) at all. Haven't been able to get to pep boys to rent the compression tester but I'm thinking more and more that the results are going to be normal...
Regardless, I've turned my MAF down to 170 ohms from 905 ohms and it still smokes badly. Smoke is light blue, and does not smell of coolant (sweet) at all. Haven't been able to get to pep boys to rent the compression tester but I'm thinking more and more that the results are going to be normal...
Blue smoke is oil -no doubt about that.
I am not too familiar with the MAF setup on your model- presumably you can "tune it" a bit to run bit richer or leaner as needed- I know some of the earlier models have this feature but not sure which ones.
On the later models the MAF is non adjustable- Cat models run with an O2 sensor in closed loop mode for the cruise range map. Non cat models like mine run on open loop with an external adjustable resistance pot to adjust the AFR within certain bounds.
#63
Rennlist
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They don't do that.....
BTW....the valve inserts into one of the metal nipples on the passenger side of the filler neck. You don't have to remove the filler neck. Just remove the rear most hose and see if it is there.
#64
Soot is running rich but remember there are certain conditions where the motor runs rich by design such as warm up and full load power. Often takes a good run to get the pipe back to grey colour.
Blue smoke is oil -no doubt about that.
I am not too familiar with the MAF setup on your model- presumably you can "tune it" a bit to run bit richer or leaner as needed- I know some of the earlier models have this feature but not sure which ones.
On the later models the MAF is non adjustable- Cat models run with an O2 sensor in closed loop mode for the cruise range map. Non cat models like mine run on open loop with an external adjustable resistance pot to adjust the AFR within certain bounds.
Blue smoke is oil -no doubt about that.
I am not too familiar with the MAF setup on your model- presumably you can "tune it" a bit to run bit richer or leaner as needed- I know some of the earlier models have this feature but not sure which ones.
On the later models the MAF is non adjustable- Cat models run with an O2 sensor in closed loop mode for the cruise range map. Non cat models like mine run on open loop with an external adjustable resistance pot to adjust the AFR within certain bounds.
On the 86 the maf is adjustable within 0-1000ohm (or kilo ohm idk) resistance variable potentiometer that tunes for the c0. This in turn tunes it to run lean or rich depending on the setting. Previous to the incident, 860-ish was my sweet spot to run the car with the best power I could manage to get out of it.
Now that the intake has been completely refreshed, I am imagining that it needed to be so rich/high ohm to offset for huge false air/vacuum leaks just to run right. I just turned the maf pot all the way down to 90ohms. This is something I could have never done before the incident, the car would barely run and had zero power threatening to stall when revved. It just doesn't make any sense.
#65
You dismiss every reason for it to have seized....except you believe a piston stuck, out of the blue.
They don't do that.....
BTW....the valve inserts into one of the metal nipples on the passenger side of the filler neck. You don't have to remove the filler neck. Just remove the rear most hose and see if it is there.
They don't do that.....
BTW....the valve inserts into one of the metal nipples on the passenger side of the filler neck. You don't have to remove the filler neck. Just remove the rear most hose and see if it is there.
I realised after the water bridge was said to need removal that it would end up easier to pull the intake again if I end up needing to verify the valve.
Even if its missing, where am I going to get one? I see zero sources online for them.
#66
Another issue... Won't the amount of oil in the intake literally running down into the cylinders falsify the compression test? Since you're supposed to add oil to the cylinder to check a low value?
#67
Rennlist Member
Yeah. If only there was another test that somehow checked the ability of your combustion chamber to hold pressure...
#68
#69
Rennlist Member
#70
Rennlist Member
Have you pulled the plugs yet? If one cylinder isn't firing right the plug will tell the story.
Something must have been jammed in the combustion chamber to cause it to seize there is no other explanation. Especially when you said it would turn backwards. I've been there with a 928, mine was a stray intake washer that rode in the intake port for 300 miles. One day I shut it off and it dropped in the cylinder when the intake valve was open. Ran for a few seconds and locked up solid. I was able to save mine, I pulled the head and fished it out.
Whatever happened over the course of it sitting must have moved it enough to allow it to turn over. Could still be in there who knows. Let us know the compression numbers (leakdown would be better). Compression can be affected by oil in the cylinders and a cylinder can still produce compression and have terrible leakdown. In my case the washer tweaked an exhaust valve just a few thou but leakdown was 20%.
Edit: I just see that you found the offending cylinder. It must have injested a foreign object and somehow you managed to get it to turn over with it still in there.
Something must have been jammed in the combustion chamber to cause it to seize there is no other explanation. Especially when you said it would turn backwards. I've been there with a 928, mine was a stray intake washer that rode in the intake port for 300 miles. One day I shut it off and it dropped in the cylinder when the intake valve was open. Ran for a few seconds and locked up solid. I was able to save mine, I pulled the head and fished it out.
Whatever happened over the course of it sitting must have moved it enough to allow it to turn over. Could still be in there who knows. Let us know the compression numbers (leakdown would be better). Compression can be affected by oil in the cylinders and a cylinder can still produce compression and have terrible leakdown. In my case the washer tweaked an exhaust valve just a few thou but leakdown was 20%.
Edit: I just see that you found the offending cylinder. It must have injested a foreign object and somehow you managed to get it to turn over with it still in there.
Last edited by Cosmo Kramer; 04-25-2016 at 09:39 PM.
#71
Have you pulled the plugs yet? If one cylinder isn't firing right the plug will tell the story.
Something must have been jammed in the combustion chamber to cause it to seize there is no other explanation. Especially when you said it would turn backwards. I've been there with a 928, mine was a stray intake washer that rode in the intake port for 300 miles. One day I shut it off and it dropped in the cylinder when the intake valve was open. Ran for a few seconds and locked up solid. I was able to save mine, I pulled the head and fished it out.
Whatever happened over the course of it sitting must have moved it enough to allow it to turn over. Could still be in there who knows. Let us know the compression numbers (leakdown would be better). Compression can be affected by oil in the cylinders and a cylinder can still produce compression and have terrible leakdown. In my case the washer tweaked an exhaust valve just a few thou but leakdown was 20%.
Edit: I just see that you found the offending cylinder. It must have injested a foreign object and somehow you managed to get it to turn over with it still in there.
Something must have been jammed in the combustion chamber to cause it to seize there is no other explanation. Especially when you said it would turn backwards. I've been there with a 928, mine was a stray intake washer that rode in the intake port for 300 miles. One day I shut it off and it dropped in the cylinder when the intake valve was open. Ran for a few seconds and locked up solid. I was able to save mine, I pulled the head and fished it out.
Whatever happened over the course of it sitting must have moved it enough to allow it to turn over. Could still be in there who knows. Let us know the compression numbers (leakdown would be better). Compression can be affected by oil in the cylinders and a cylinder can still produce compression and have terrible leakdown. In my case the washer tweaked an exhaust valve just a few thou but leakdown was 20%.
Edit: I just see that you found the offending cylinder. It must have injested a foreign object and somehow you managed to get it to turn over with it still in there.
#72
Captain Obvious
Super User
Super User
You could have ingested a washer like Kosmo Kramer did. The crunch noise was probably a cracking piston and/or a con rod bending. But with the copper shavings tell me the con Rod is bent and the bearing is getting chewed up. Either way you look at it it's game over for this engine.
#73
Rennlist Member
Anyways, good luck figuring a path with the car, goodness knows I wish I could turn back the clock on some of my self induced repairs.
#74
Except there was not anything in the intake, it didn't ingest anything, and no one is listening to me having cranked the engine literally until it locked up solid. Outside in 20 degree (f) weather I sat with the key turned and the starter cranking for at least two minutes. The piston seized. If I had a flywheel lock I'd pull it apart just to prove a point.
#75
Rennlist Member
Except there was not anything in the intake, it didn't ingest anything, and no one is listening to me having cranked the engine literally until it locked up solid. Outside in 20 degree (f) weather I sat with the key turned and the starter cranking for at least two minutes. The piston seized. If I had a flywheel lock I'd pull it apart just to prove a point.
Starter motor burning out, that makes sense. But how does slowly turning the engine over for a long time cause it to seize?