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RACING at Laguna Seca this weekend 3-19-2016

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Old 03-21-2016, 02:28 PM
  #31  
dr bob
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Nobody said racing is cheap. I didn't say anybody is slow. You shared a list of things that give someone (else) an advantage that allows them to go faster. Do you want to go faster? Are there more things you could do to go faster? Add them to the list. Do the things on the list.

Do you plan to go faster? Or do you just dream of going faster? The difference is a defined scope, a budget, and a schedule. It looks like you have a scope (your list) that's readily achievable. Got budget? If you don't, you're doomed to dicing with the backmarkers. Got a schedule? That's the real difference between dreams and plans. But it really takes all three legs to support any project, including racing.

Sounds like you have a good list to start from. Find your budget, define your schedule, and you will have a car with the potential to go faster.


---

Other Real Racers are doing this already. Tighten the schedule, increase the budget, expand the scope, ahead of the competition or you are doomed as you are now to playing catch-up.


Want to go budget racing? Buy a couple big TV's and a video game console.
Old 03-21-2016, 03:51 PM
  #32  
mark kibort
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Bob, actually "real racers" are NOT doing this. i cant count the number of pros and club guys falling into "slower" classes with "slower " cars and making more money, pushing them further to their limits and having great competition. why is the GTS3 the most popular class iin nasa. (not GTS4, or GTS 5) GTS03 seems to be a sweet spot. NASA ST2. (not ST1 or ST3 but ST2). why??? same thing

why does pobst run WCGT and then run touring for many years? Racing isnt about the fastest car you can spend your money on, its where the racing will be ... sometimes its super fast, sometimes its moderately fast. 1:36 is mind breaking fast at laguna, by any stretch. Keep in mind Max Angelleli took the 2008 porsche GT3 on DOTs for a hot lap. 1:39 was his best. the 928 i race did this, with almost all stock components, with near the same weight and power too. Now, my car is in somewhat of a no-mans land with the modified engine. so, now neeed really to fiind HP/weight classed racing.

Bob, i have a scope.. i have a budget. (entry fees and gas), and i have schedule. all planned as it is every year. i consistently place in the top 3 places in the races and year end championship . and i do it on a shoe string budget. if i wanted to win, it would be no problem... but what would that get me... a bigger trophy? i care more about the actual racing. who is in front of me, how do i get around.. who is behind me... how do i stay in front. that perfect practice is what makes good racers, not budget

im never with any backmarkers.. the car even at SCCA nationals, where there were some full spec wcGT racers in with me, i was top 10, until i broke due to that fuel pump wire. in any top PCA , POC race, ill always be toward the front regardless of the money in the front runner cars.

its all racing Bob..its not about geting more and more power every year, its about good racing. close and competitive racing that engages a lot of drivers to partake make no mistake, the guys i race with are as good as any out there. these guys will often go to pro races (in whatever the best car is in that field) and podium.

im budget racing, but those that race agasint me dont know it. thats the trick.
used tires, same old 30 year old car. do you think that 991 GT3Cup car that was 1 second ahead of me, and $275,000 knew i had a $20,000 car chasing him and he came over and complemented the car .... said it was one of the more "facinating" cars that porsche made and was impressed.
that kind of thing makes it all worth it.

if you want to make it about money.. your choice.... anyone that shows up in that car GT3 991 , better run a 1:29 at laguna or they are just tea tottling..

however, if you are on a budget, you better make it up in technique, strategy and a cheaper platform, and thats what i do.


Originally Posted by dr bob
Nobody said racing is cheap. I didn't say anybody is slow. You shared a list of things that give someone (else) an advantage that allows them to go faster. Do you want to go faster? Are there more things you could do to go faster? Add them to the list. Do the things on the list.

Do you plan to go faster? Or do you just dream of going faster? The difference is a defined scope, a budget, and a schedule. It looks like you have a scope (your list) that's readily achievable. Got budget? If you don't, you're doomed to dicing with the backmarkers. Got a schedule? That's the real difference between dreams and plans. But it really takes all three legs to support any project, including racing.

Sounds like you have a good list to start from. Find your budget, define your schedule, and you will have a car with the potential to go faster.

now as far as widening my scope... im trying but its a tough road. $40k raised for a weekend. JUST A WEEKEND to run the Aston martin with WCGTS. almost had it last year. one of my peers did it, and won last year. ive tested the car, its near the same as the 928. the times are near the same too, but on slicks.
im more than confident ill be sucessful in that car racing in the series with a proper , modern , race car!


---

Other Real Racers are doing this already. Tighten the schedule, increase the budget, expand the scope, ahead of the competition or you are doomed as you are now to playing catch-up.


Want to go budget racing? Buy a couple big TV's and a video game console.
Old 03-21-2016, 04:43 PM
  #33  
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If the way you are doing it is acceptable, then why all the pointless discussion about how you project your capability against others who have the added advantages of [insert your excuses list here]? You are resigned to your low-budget, usually-in-the-top-n places in a class of n+few, which is fine. Sniffing and postulating about how a new intake would help is kinda pointless if it isn't in your budget. Suggesting that the design shouldn't take much because look at how the Mustang GT guys do with the same displacement is pointless unless you plan to swap in a Mustang GT driveline. You've stranded yourself on an orphaned platform, where the race groups have you in a catch-all class where you do OK. Sure, it's fun to go out and rip around the local tracks you know with people you know, testing your passing and blocking skills. So long as you are enjoying that, have a ball! Would it be more fun to go faster? [see list, budget, schedule]
Old 03-21-2016, 05:09 PM
  #34  
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Now you are getting it..... good!

so, yes, the budget will allow for a new intake, which i think it will be more bang for the buck than my share of the stroker! (50hp only, but we know why due to intake, and cams).

However, this will allow me to win or get very close to winning the national GT2 SCCA class. this is my motivation. OR, the other plan is to run the car as is and work on handling and wider stance and buy newer tires, when needed.
that would be for the most popular classes of ST-2 in NASA or GTS-4 in NASA (german touring series). ST2 is with most of the nationally ranked C5-6 vets, and GTS is more about the BMWs. ive raced many years, successfully against both. they are highly developed.... most from World Challenge GT as far as technology, and start out 15 years newer than my car, yet i do pretty well against them.

now posulatinog about the mustang intake is a good way to think about it. what does any of that have to do with the "driveline"?? gearing is near the same for alll practical purposes. ill post the dyno run.. its the same as mine, but shifted up 100hp. and out of a 5 liter. and believe me, they have LOTS of issues with motor blowing up. many of the drivers run the RPM too high too long and things fall apart. 500 less RPM would solve many of their issues and not sacrafice much in hp.

do i need to go faster? for GT2, yes.. a little .. I need about 50hp more to be very competitive. the other catch 22 is the fastest guys dont always have the most fun. if you are not getting paid for it, your video will be pretty boring with no one to run with . i like being the underdog and putting down cars that are way over performance of the 928! you should be prideful that im taking the 928 out there and doing this. the car gets a lot of attention at the track. it usually in some of the best racing of the day.. just ask any of the cornerworkers . they love the 928!!

just look at some of the cars behind me on the grid. EXRs, two of them, a cup car, spec mustang, the transam pontiac, a handful of stock cars, etc etc. you have no idea how well the 928 shows out there. reemebrer, its a $20k car.... it cost as much as most spend for that weekend out at laguna! for me, it was 15 gallons of gas and $180 entry fee..... that was it! in a season, ill go through a set of rotors and pads now with my new brakes . semi sponsored by Racing brakes.com now, so thats $700 for the entire season and maybe 2 oil changes for $140 each.... thats about $1k for the entire season of racing. find me anyone doing more with less!!!

Originally Posted by dr bob
If the way you are doing it is acceptable, then why all the pointless discussion about how you project your capability against others who have the added advantages of [insert your excuses list here]? You are resigned to your low-budget, usually-in-the-top-n places in a class of n+few, which is fine. Sniffing and postulating about how a new intake would help is kinda pointless if it isn't in your budget. Suggesting that the design shouldn't take much because look at how the Mustang GT guys do with the same displacement is pointless unless you plan to swap in a Mustang GT driveline. You've stranded yourself on an orphaned platform, where the race groups have you in a catch-all class where you do OK. Sure, it's fun to go out and rip around the local tracks you know with people you know, testing your passing and blocking skills. So long as you are enjoying that, have a ball! Would it be more fun to go faster? [see list, budget, schedule]
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Old 03-21-2016, 09:24 PM
  #35  
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Here are a few shots of the grid before the green , and a few of a lap with the 991GT3. look at that compression on the tire.. look at that tire movement. no camber changes there due to chassis flex that's for sure!
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Old 03-21-2016, 11:23 PM
  #36  
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Our Man of La Mocha ...... so misunderstood !!
Old 03-22-2016, 04:01 PM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by James Bailey
Our Man of La Mocha ...... so misunderstood !!
jim.. more projection.

watch a few of the videos.. the one i sent you .. and let me know if you dont think that is some great racing. you know, its funny.... even when i raced world challenge and , in my 2nd race at laguna, i was running against Tim Hanke in his '00 cup car, its funny. the announcer and organizers came over an complemented us on the race, saying it was the best battle going on . the leaders checked out, and there was NOTHING to watch, except for Tim and I going at it. for me, it was a blast .. cat and mouse. its really what as racers we strive to partake in. a battle. now, in pro racing, its an easy win to be in front with no one around. you win money, sponsors happy, you are etched in a trophy.... but thats a different part of racing.

for me and the majority of pure racers out there (some pros) they just LOVE racing, pushing the car to the limit and the battles as the best part of the sport.
you fail to understand that racing is many things. but, i guarantee you this, in the same weight class (boxing term, jim) , i have NO problem going head to head with anyone.

you can toss all the insults you want jim. i know you .. i know your background. YOU have NO ides what racing is, proofed by your hang ups regarding needing to go faster. Jim , its about the race, not about the car, and putting that car, and you , at the limit for 30 mins . thats what its all about.
this is something you have NO clue about , obvoisly. so, carry on Jim. toss out the challenges.. im up for it... even for you.

give me a goal for willow springs!!! Mark A with 200 more hp and slicks runs his best, of 1:24.... what do i need to run on DOTs and 200less HP? (not to mention the 150lbs less weight, motons, etc etc)
Old 03-22-2016, 04:14 PM
  #38  
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Mark no challenge from me just a clarification of what you mean by posting qualified first in class third or 4th overall......so you race for the love of racing for the pleasure of a well executed shift, properly trail braking corner, defending the line..... slowing down for a couple laps to let a slower car catch up so you can "race" . OK you do it out of LOVE .....

Cue up "Dancing with yourself" listen to the lyrics and then compare that to what you are doing......and by the way many believe that the song is about self pleasuring. Which somehow seems fitting.
Old 03-22-2016, 04:27 PM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by James Bailey
Mark no challenge from me just a clarification of what you mean by posting qualified first in class third or 4th overall......so you race for the love of racing for the pleasure of a well executed shift, properly trail braking corner, defending the line..... slowing down for a couple laps to let a slower car catch up so you can "race" . OK you do it out of LOVE .....
g.
funny Jim.. again, it was a weak weaking. who would think that the most popular racing organization , at the best track in the world (close anyway), and its most popular group, would have only 14 cars in the group. 10 of which run faster than anyone that has ever driven a 928 has ever run at Laguna, and that includes the guys in the NW, mark andersons wcgt time of 1999 and scot, dennis, etc etc.
But, there was no one realy to race WITH. (read that several times Jim)
I beat 2 ExR euro racers behind, along with a few nascars and ended up having the 991s just pull away, 1 second a lap faster. so, that was it for me.. i even considered pulling into the pits , as to why waste the tires., and then i saw the transam car. let him buy and chased his *** for 20 mins. it was fun. JIM, its called making the best of a bad situation!
anyway, i love racing, yes. .. qualifying was only fun because i had newer tires under me and it felt GREAT to get some handling back in the 928. but generally, i run the best i can for the competition to get on the grid in the right spot for qualifying. but this time , qual was really fun. keeping pace with the 991 is a cool thing to do. but you would never know this, becuase
a. you dont have a race car
b. you have never raced
c. you have neve driven a race car or de car to this level.
d. and you would rather be monday morning quarterback of what my racing weekend was all about.

the truth is, it was fun for two reasons. got to get the new brakes dialed in. tested new tires (newer than usual) and achieve a time that i havent run in 5 years.

dont make more of it than it is Jim

so, get back to the point here... what do you think i need to run to show the car is working hard, at willow springs in May? running in the "little " pool as Greg says with POC.... again, some of the faster racers out there that ive seen.. (and they dont always run in the top , fastest calsses.. some say, that R5, V3 class which is now GT3 had some of the fastest drivers. I ran against all of them when i ran POC 15 years ago. (vandecars, roush, alarcon, and many others) did pretty well back then, and i think ive gotten a lot better since then.
Old 03-22-2016, 04:53 PM
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Mark just go DO IT !! there will be lots of time to TALK about it later, probably forever . I would hate to see you try too hard. I watched a super production go off in turn eight at 130mph or so.... side over side then flipping end over end a few times. Fiberglass exploded everywhere and the huge cloud of dust. Nascar style chassis / equipment saved his butt. But I really thought he was going to be dead.
Old 03-22-2016, 05:06 PM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by James Bailey
Mark just go DO IT !! there will be lots of time to TALK about it later, probably forever . I would hate to see you try too hard. I watched a super production go off in turn eight at 130mph or so.... side over side then flipping end over end a few times. Fiberglass exploded everywhere and the huge cloud of dust. Nascar style chassis / equipment saved his butt. But I really thought he was going to be dead.
Thanks Jim. yes, that can be a scary place on the track. everywhere else is just turns (well, Budweiser area is tricky too, but not dangerous)
one of my biggest competitors , Kent jordan. ran his evo there and did that off.. I think he flipped 4-5 times. survived and was very lucky.
Ive been doing this a long time jim... have a pretty good feel for the car and dont think ill biting off more than i can chewl One of the biggest problems guys have is trying to save the offs at turn 8-9. thats what causes the flips. I actually like the dirt and have no problem just driving straight if get pushed off or something goes wrong. but it will be on my mind there for sure, so thanks!
I dont think or expect any records here. the main reason for going, is that i do miss the track, i want to prove the car can survive willow springs (with wet sump, no oil breathers, baffles, scrapers, pan extensions, or accusump) and run a respectable time and have a good race against some of the better racers of POC at their home track..... later, in the summer, they will be coming up to laguna to race a my track and we can see the difference, if any.
and then Jim, with any luck, my sponsorship will come through and ill be racing an Aston Martin in the Pirreli world challenge at sears point at the end of summer. Ill give you one guarantee, you will not find me at the back or middle of that pack in that car!!

so, times for Wilow....... poor, average, good , and great? by the way, anyone coming out there can mount up anything they want to mount. cameras, g meters, temp , pressure guages,


Old 03-25-2016, 03:14 PM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by mark kibort
Bob, really? im slow at the track? just to level set your thinking and give some perspective. the WINNING time in 2001 at laguna for the speed vision world challenge was 1:39.8 on toyo T1S. anderson best on DOTs the prior year was 1:40.1 with 150 more hp than I have. (but the same weigiht do to class rules) (but still the bigger width, motons, drysump etc)

fast forward to 2011, ive run 1:36.1 on DOTs. andersons best time on dots at laguna at the same weight is 1:34 in world challenge. (probably 1:33 on todays laguna track )

so, you ask , why i just make my car like andersons?
you say its cheap and off the shelf??

well, that would be nice , but what do i need to do that? what does it buy me. where is the bang for the buck?

I need 200more HP... simple right bob. hence the HP adder discussion with the intake. not an easy or cheap solution. this requires. bigger cams, ported heads and intake, and bigger intake valves AND the entire intake system and components

chasssi. need to heim joint everything, and put bigger flares front and rear

i need to start running $3000 per set slicks that last about 1 weekend

I need to buy a 10,000 set of motons.

buy a bigger wing

gett the bigger splitter he made for his car.

And, shave 100 lbs off the chassis by taking it down to bare metal and rebuilding the thing from scratch


so, what does this get me. "SLOW" bob, is relative. thats why they have classes. i can runt the car as is and be competitive in nasa ST2, or win every race in GTS GTS5 or GTS4 NASA because no one runs that class.
ITE, is a crap shoot and i win that too, but now its not fun anymore because the 20 other guys that used to run it, dont race anymore or have moved other classes . (bought GT3 cup car, are running open wheel, NASCAR type , etc)

so this is racing. for me...... i just want a close battle with a bunch of cars.
i think POC with its GT3 class is the answer and i dont have to change a thing to race in that, and it will be a top front runner competitor, without question.

Racing is about money, but you cant go any faster than i go for less than you can in a 928! its really a club racing dream car.

so, the only thing "cheap" and "off the shelf" that i can do or buy is the rear wing and front splitter. the rest of the stuff is really pricy. but i did buy some new tires (im talking REALLY new). so, ill break those out at willow springs an laguna PCA in the summer.

anyway.. great time racing. had some people show up that made it more fun and here are a few shots. the best part was battling wtih the transam car.
how do you think he sees the 928 ? slow??
Hi Mark,

Good to see you at the track the other day. Pretty picture of my black chariot. Good driving, and good luck at the next event. Hope you remember the switch thing.

I think you sometimes mix me up with Andrie H, the racer with the red F 430..

Anyway I'll give a jingle if the gf and I are up your way soon.

Best Regards,
Old 03-25-2016, 03:22 PM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by blau928
Hi Mark,

Good to see you at the track the other day. Pretty picture of my black chariot. Good driving, and good luck at the next event. Hope you remember the switch thing.

I think you sometimes mix me up with Andrie H, the racer with the red F 430..

Anyway I'll give a jingle if the gf and I are up your way soon.

Best Regards,
Richard..............sorry!! im losing it! Great to see you out there too. thanks for keeping Connie company! lets get together soon..... maybe to talk intake!!
Old 03-25-2016, 03:25 PM
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Originally Posted by mark kibort
Richard..............sorry!! im losing it! Great to see you out there too. thanks for keeping Connie company! lets get together soon..... maybe to talk intake!!
Hey,

No problem, I lost my mind many years ago!! I'll give a jingle soon, but most likely after I finish the remodel on my house. (Gotta keep the better half happy!!)
Old 03-31-2016, 07:00 PM
  #45  
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video of the qualifying

great shots of the tire deformation with high g loading during the corkscrew as well as under braking


decent auto of the 928 engine tach'g out!!




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