Typical cost to bring typical car up to our standard
01-24-2016, 08:23 AM
#47
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As we get older, we drive with what younger folks see as excessive caution. Slower reaction times may play a role, we may think we have more to lose, and there may be other factors (e.g., a spouse in the passenger seat). But the main factor is that we've seen more ways to get in a crash. We may slow down generally, or just in particular situations when we recognize a specific risk that younger drivers don't see.
I imagine the same phenomenon occurs with the combination of owning a 928 and reading this forum: the more you do it, the more potential trouble you see and wish to avoid.
Risk analysis, though, is based on dividing occurrences by the number of opportunities. We see only the occurrences here, or those we experience ourselves. Our judgment naturally becomes skewed towards over-caution, and we may spend more money on preventive maintenance than a proper risk analysis would suggest is appropriate.
The "better safe than sorry" principle takes over, which is an expensive substitute for data and engineering judgment. On the other hand, we've already committed to a degree of foolishness by purchasing our cars; we should be left to enjoy our indulgence without interference.
Nevertheless, an interesting thread would ask "What do we do to our cars out of fear rather than logic?" I don't want to start that fire, myself. (Hmm ... dare I ask if fuel lines are a good example of "over treatment"?
)
01-24-2016, 08:30 AM
#48
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That's an interesting observation. I'm prompted to over-think it, as is my habit:
As we get older, we drive with what younger folks see as excessive caution. Slower reaction times may play a role, we may think we have more to lose, and there may be other factors (e.g., a spouse in the passenger seat). But the main factor is that we've seen more ways to get in a crash. We may slow down generally, or just in particular situations when we recognize a specific risk that younger drivers don't see.
I imagine the same phenomenon occurs with the combination of owning a 928 and reading this forum: the more you do it, the more potential trouble you see and wish to avoid.
Risk analysis, though, is based on dividing occurrences by the number of opportunities. We see only the occurrences here, or those we experience ourselves. Our judgment naturally becomes skewed towards over-caution, and we may spend more money on preventive maintenance than a proper risk analysis would suggest is appropriate.
The "better safe than sorry" principle takes over, which is an expensive substitute for data and engineering judgment. On the other hand, we've already committed to a degree of foolishness by purchasing our cars; we should be left to enjoy our indulgence without interference.
Nevertheless, an interesting thread would ask "What do we do to our cars out of fear rather than logic?" I don't want to start that fire, myself. (Hmm ... dare I ask if fuel lines are a good example of "over treatment"?)
As we get older, we drive with what younger folks see as excessive caution. Slower reaction times may play a role, we may think we have more to lose, and there may be other factors (e.g., a spouse in the passenger seat). But the main factor is that we've seen more ways to get in a crash. We may slow down generally, or just in particular situations when we recognize a specific risk that younger drivers don't see.
I imagine the same phenomenon occurs with the combination of owning a 928 and reading this forum: the more you do it, the more potential trouble you see and wish to avoid.
Risk analysis, though, is based on dividing occurrences by the number of opportunities. We see only the occurrences here, or those we experience ourselves. Our judgment naturally becomes skewed towards over-caution, and we may spend more money on preventive maintenance than a proper risk analysis would suggest is appropriate.
The "better safe than sorry" principle takes over, which is an expensive substitute for data and engineering judgment. On the other hand, we've already committed to a degree of foolishness by purchasing our cars; we should be left to enjoy our indulgence without interference.
Nevertheless, an interesting thread would ask "What do we do to our cars out of fear rather than logic?" I don't want to start that fire, myself. (Hmm ... dare I ask if fuel lines are a good example of "over treatment"?
)I drive mine about 200 miles/week, but wifey is worried about it sitting outside, ....
01-24-2016, 08:42 AM
#49
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I do like the premise of ADK's observations, analysis, and conclusions. To a point, he is correct. Just look at some of the questions posed by member's getting ready to take a trip.. The all seem to fear the trip and want to pack their entire tool set.....
I was in this mindset a couple of years ago, but now I have got my 928 to a level that the only thing I think about before taking it on a long trip, is avoiding getting a speeding ticket...
I was in this mindset a couple of years ago, but now I have got my 928 to a level that the only thing I think about before taking it on a long trip, is avoiding getting a speeding ticket...
01-24-2016, 08:51 AM
#50
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I do like the premise of ADK's observations, analysis, and conclusions. To a point, he is correct. Just look at some of the questions posed by member's getting ready to take a trip.. The all seem to fear the trip and want to pack their entire tool set.....
I was in this mindset a couple of years ago, but now I have got my 928 to a level that the only thing I think about before taking it on a long trip, is avoiding getting a speeding ticket...
I was in this mindset a couple of years ago, but now I have got my 928 to a level that the only thing I think about before taking it on a long trip, is avoiding getting a speeding ticket...
Friday eve in Indy, I was doin 63 in a 55, I noticed a lightbar behind me, he moved over and passed. (City cop).
01-24-2016, 09:04 AM
#52
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Yeah, straying a little off from the OP context, but a few weeks ago @ 75 a state in the opposing lane hit the brakes to do a flip,....WOT, and a exit ramp at 90.., I never saw him again..
01-24-2016, 11:04 AM
#55
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Perhaps something else to consider...
How much did your marriage license cost?
What's the annual maintenance on that purchase?
What's the potential sale value?
Is it worth it?
How much did your marriage license cost?
What's the annual maintenance on that purchase?
What's the potential sale value?
Is it worth it?
01-24-2016, 01:49 PM
#57
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That's an interesting observation. I'm prompted to over-think it, as is my habit:
Nevertheless, an interesting thread would ask "What do we do to our cars out of fear rather than logic?" I don't want to start that fire, myself. (Hmm ... dare I ask if fuel lines are a good example of "over treatment"?
Nevertheless, an interesting thread would ask "What do we do to our cars out of fear rather than logic?" I don't want to start that fire, myself. (Hmm ... dare I ask if fuel lines are a good example of "over treatment"?
As an engineer, over many years I have had to deal with people [idiots?] who could not see the problem yet alone the solutions I was talking about but strangely enough the smarter ones of that sub set usually came back a few years later to tell me I was right after all!
The chestnut was a chap who recommended to management that they should ignore the service intervals on gas turbine running hours and do something DF stupid like extend the interval by 100%. They did, he got a major promotion for the money saved despite warnings from folks like myself, and would you believe it, when the interval reached roughly 150% of recommended the turbines started failing spectacularly. Half life is an alien concept to most it seems.
So with our 928's the trick is to understand the reasonable half life for single component failures that have the ability to bring the car to a complete and maybe devastating halt. I have never seen a wise owner lose a timing belt in all the time I have been on this list- is that a good thing or a bad thing?
25 year old fuel lines are brittle and generally have lost their elasticity, the very reason they were installed with that spec in the first place. I think they are past their useful life after 10 years- beyond that there is a risk- for this reason we read about fuel hose fires quite regularly- or should I say we used to until the list learned better.
The LH unit will fail sooner or later so you need a spare [or get a refurbed one]. Fuel pumps will fail so how long do you leave them before you change out? Same for the MAF but these items will not catch fire or cause the engine to grenade like fuel lines can and do.
It is all a question of measured response and not everyone will see things the same way.
Rgds
Fred
01-24-2016, 04:02 PM
#58
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I was an engineer at GE Aircraft Turbines, which may have manufactured some of the turbines you've been responsible for. Field engineers such as yourself (I'm guessing) are highly respected people at GE; they know them like few others. Turbines differ from 928s in some significant ways, however: they are sold for specific power levels and duty cycles, air quality, fuel type and fuel impurities. Since they are often sold with service contracts, there are people who have figured out quite closely the life of various components.
I was a research metallurgist focussed on the needs of hot section components. They are run to the max and definitely have limited lives. As you know, turbine blades look like crap when they get swapped out. You know they're getting bad because fuel burn gets bad as they essentially burn and corrode away. Vanadium sulfate!
Porsche sold 928s to owners that would operate them in various ways in various environments, with highly variable consideration of the needs and limitations of a machine. They could only vaguely guess about the life of a particular component, but hoped it would last through the warranty period and a decent interval thereafter. Someone on this forum used the word "stochastic" recently....
In other words, Porsche engineers would not be able to predict the life of a part in my particular car. I can't either. I can look at it, though, and make a decision. Will I have to ignore someone trying to scare me with the "better safe than sorry" thing? Maybe. Is it risky? Yes; I may have PhD in materials, but not the experience of a field engineer!
Thanks for your thoughtful remarks.
I was a research metallurgist focussed on the needs of hot section components. They are run to the max and definitely have limited lives. As you know, turbine blades look like crap when they get swapped out. You know they're getting bad because fuel burn gets bad as they essentially burn and corrode away. Vanadium sulfate!
Porsche sold 928s to owners that would operate them in various ways in various environments, with highly variable consideration of the needs and limitations of a machine. They could only vaguely guess about the life of a particular component, but hoped it would last through the warranty period and a decent interval thereafter. Someone on this forum used the word "stochastic" recently....
In other words, Porsche engineers would not be able to predict the life of a part in my particular car. I can't either. I can look at it, though, and make a decision. Will I have to ignore someone trying to scare me with the "better safe than sorry" thing? Maybe. Is it risky? Yes; I may have PhD in materials, but not the experience of a field engineer!
Thanks for your thoughtful remarks.
01-24-2016, 04:20 PM
#59
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In other words, Porsche engineers would not be able to predict the life of a part in my particular car. I can't either. I can look at it, though, and make a decision. Will I have to ignore someone trying to scare me with the "better safe than sorry" thing? Maybe. Is it risky? Yes; I may have PhD in materials, but not the experience of a field engineer!
Thanks for your thoughtful remarks.
The common recommendation I chose to ignore because to me it did not make sense was the one to change the water pump if a new belt was fitted. If the mileage was high or the age was towards the 6 year interval then maybe. Will a belt last longer than 6 years?- probably but now that I do my own changes I would not take any risks. Apart from the fuel lines and the timing belt/WPump combo just about everything else I run until it is towards end of service life or fails. I had 3 breakdown failures on my S4- the snapped drive shaft, a jammed fuel pump [due to the in tank hose breaking] and a battery failure after the lid welded itself shut [my fault- forgot to install the battery hold down strap].
Since those early days 10 plus years ago I have not had a single breakdown failure. Luck or good judgement- I say "Chance favours the prepared mind".
Work wise I was the Engineering Manager for my assigned area. The turbines were not my direct responsibility but I was quite vociferous about the stupidity of the policy that was being deployed- somewhat catastrophically as it turned out for the first two or three victims until the lights came on.
Rgds
Fred
01-24-2016, 09:31 PM
#60
Drifting
Curt - You, too, offer an interesting observation 
I'm looking forward to Frenzy and chatting a bit over some home brews, while watching others run timed laps on a supercharged cooler. I've got 32 inches of snow out my window and wondering how well your Fat bike goes in snow (I'll PM you for details). I'm also wishing I still had my Unimog. We are going nowhere for awhile.
I'm looking forward to Frenzy and chatting a bit over some home brews, while watching others run timed laps on a supercharged cooler. I've got 32 inches of snow out my window and wondering how well your Fat bike goes in snow (I'll PM you for details). I'm also wishing I still had my Unimog. We are going nowhere for awhile. That's an interesting observation. I'm prompted to over-think it, as is my habit:
As we get older, we drive with what younger folks see as excessive caution. Slower reaction times may play a role, we may think we have more to lose, and there may be other factors (e.g., a spouse in the passenger seat). But the main factor is that we've seen more ways to get in a crash. We may slow down generally, or just in particular situations when we recognize a specific risk that younger drivers don't see.
I imagine the same phenomenon occurs with the combination of owning a 928 and reading this forum: the more you do it, the more potential trouble you see and wish to avoid.
Risk analysis, though, is based on dividing occurrences by the number of opportunities. We see only the occurrences here, or those we experience ourselves. Our judgment naturally becomes skewed towards over-caution, and we may spend more money on preventive maintenance than a proper risk analysis would suggest is appropriate.
The "better safe than sorry" principle takes over, which is an expensive substitute for data and engineering judgment. On the other hand, we've already committed to a degree of foolishness by purchasing our cars; we should be left to enjoy our indulgence without interference.
Nevertheless, an interesting thread would ask "What do we do to our cars out of fear rather than logic?" I don't want to start that fire, myself. (Hmm ... dare I ask if fuel lines are a good example of "over treatment"?)
As we get older, we drive with what younger folks see as excessive caution. Slower reaction times may play a role, we may think we have more to lose, and there may be other factors (e.g., a spouse in the passenger seat). But the main factor is that we've seen more ways to get in a crash. We may slow down generally, or just in particular situations when we recognize a specific risk that younger drivers don't see.
I imagine the same phenomenon occurs with the combination of owning a 928 and reading this forum: the more you do it, the more potential trouble you see and wish to avoid.
Risk analysis, though, is based on dividing occurrences by the number of opportunities. We see only the occurrences here, or those we experience ourselves. Our judgment naturally becomes skewed towards over-caution, and we may spend more money on preventive maintenance than a proper risk analysis would suggest is appropriate.
The "better safe than sorry" principle takes over, which is an expensive substitute for data and engineering judgment. On the other hand, we've already committed to a degree of foolishness by purchasing our cars; we should be left to enjoy our indulgence without interference.
Nevertheless, an interesting thread would ask "What do we do to our cars out of fear rather than logic?" I don't want to start that fire, myself. (Hmm ... dare I ask if fuel lines are a good example of "over treatment"?
)