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Why risk doing something that the hose manufacturers say not to? I certainly wouldn't want to have to explain it to my insurance company, if the worst happened (and they found out).
What you can 'get away with' doesn't do justice to these cars IMO.
Running 2.5X the stock fuel pressure for 10 years is not what I would call getting away with. If the predictions were true for the 928 then this for sure would have shown it. The key word is "for the 928". And I'm not the only one on this board that did this.
How many of those burnt 928s were from crimped ruber hose on OE fittings?
Do you know better than the hose manufacturers? You may get away with it, but that doesn't mean that there isn't a risk - even if it's one car in 100+ that will burn, is it really worth it?
Do you know better than the hose manufacturers? You may get away with it, but that doesn't mean that there isn't a risk - even if it's one car in 100+ that will burn, is it really worth it?
Just did - our posts crossed. I understand that you're confident doing this, but the manufacturer is not. Why is that?
Originally Posted by Imo000
Running 2.5X the stock fuel pressure for 10 years is not what I would call getting away with. If the predictions were true for the 928 then this for sure would have shown it. The key word is "for the 928). And I'm not the only one on this board that did this.
What are you basing your assertion that this is a safe thing to do on? It appears that it's experience.
If a manufacturer tells me not to do something with their product, whose failure could be very expensive / dangerous, then I won't. I would go with experience if it were only an inconvenience for it to fail, but this is safety-critical. I just don't see the cost saving as worth taking the risk.
Do you know better than the hose manufacturers? You may get away with it, but that doesn't mean that there isn't a risk - even if it's one car in 100+ that will burn, is it really worth it?
One thing to keep in mind is that those warnings are usually not written by the engineers. They are written by the lawyers.
One of the vendors on here used to make fuel lines. He stopped when his lawyer found out about it. The potential liability is insane. Regardless of the actual risk.
One of the other vendors used to sell the "hose & FI clamps" kit. Not any more. Not because of known failures, but because of potential liability.
Not that I blame either of those folks for doing what they do. Nor do I criticize Greg for preaching rather loudly about it. The potential risk, especially if installed incorrectly, is incredibly high. And Greg has demonstrated repeatedly that he is a "nothing but the best" kind of guy.
But the reality is that "good enough" (if done properly) will work.
It's the "doing it properly" and "inspecting on a regular basis" that is beyond the control of the manufacturers, but doesn't relieve them of any liability.
Yes it's based on not only my experience but the hundreds others that bough these kits when they were available. If a hypothesis/prediction doesn't fit the reality.........what happens then?
Looks like I opened a can of worms here, sorry about that Greg. Yes, vibration and time are the killers on the 3.2 T line. We offer an option of 3 rubber lines taking vibration entirely out of the equation, but all you really need to do is use rubber washers at the tab attachment points and not use the plastic clamp at the back of the motor.
I've cut open 20+ year old original T lines and they can be scary! Porsche used Cohline for the most part, I don't think there's a higher quality rubber hose on the market.
Certainly, your hoses are the best money can buy. And I've worked on and parted out/cut up enough 911s over the last 25 years to know that not everyone deserves to own one, the lack of maintenance and Home Depot hardware used by POs is astounding. But the quality of ownership for both 911s and 928s has improved substantially in the last decade, thank God. The hose I created is more for those people who have the decklid/hood open at least 10 times a month and will inspect their fuel lines at least once a year.
Anyway, I'm sorry to cause such a ruckus. It's great to see such passion for these cars!
Originally Posted by GregBBRD
Looks good to me!
There's nothing wrong with good high pressure rubber hose, as long as it doesn't go over barbs made for plastic hose and it is monitored carefully for shrinkage and deterioration. This is especially true when this hose is crimped onto the proper fittings, like you did at the junction to the steel line.
It looked like, in your picture, thst you re-used the original deep female 16 x 1.5 fitting at the chassis attachment position, which would have been originally used with the plastic hose and have those really sharp barbs. If that is the case, I'd encourage to to not do that, but crimp on a -6 hose end made for this style hose and use my custom adaptor (on the end of the "ugly" hose) to adapt that to the chassis end.
Regardless of what some trolls claim, rubber hose with hose clamps over those sharps barbs is a very bad idea.
To repeat, this is not only my opinion, but also the clear warning from the companies that make and distribute rubber fuel hose.
BTW.....I also agree with you that rubber hose with crimps over the proper fittings is a decent "short term" solution. Good for 10 years? Maybe, maybe not.
Since you mentioned the 3.2 Carrera fuel hose, I'll use that as an example. Porsche originally crimped on very high quality rubber hose on that "T" hose you speak of. Those hoses shrank and leaked, some way earlier than 10 years. I personally replaced a boatload of them. They decided that the vibration and rubbing was the issue, so they then covered that rubber hose with a plastic spiral protection sleeve. Those hoses leaked also, some before the 10 year mark. I replaced a boatload of those, also. Their final (and damn expensive to buy) solution was to go to a really thick, extra re-inforced special synthetic rubber hose and then double clamp it onto the fittings.
Part of my "advantage" over the trolls is that I've been working on Porsches for almost 50 years and have had the time to see how Porsche addresses their fuel lines...and "solved" leakage problems with rubber hose.
In my mind, I've seen all the burned 928s (and 3.2 Carreras) I ever need to see and decided to make the fuel hoses as safe as modern technology can make them.
How many of those burnt 928s were from crimped ruber hose on OE fittings?
Off ignore, only to respond one last time to you.
While I realize that you love being a troll on everything I write, I'm not the one who writes the cautions about using rubber hose on fittings made for plastic hose....I'm just the guy that is aware of the problem.
Following your logic (or lack of logic). I've honestly never seen anyone injured by using a hair dryer in the bathtub, but since the manufacturers warn people not to do it, I'm going to assume that there is some sort of a problem with people doing this and therefore not do it, myself.
It's not too far a reach, for me, to assume if the rubber hose makers (in the business to sell as much hose as they can) tell people not to ever put their hose over fittings originally designed for plastic hose, there's probably a reason.
You are welcome to put rubber hose on anything you please. You can also use a hair dryer in the bathtub....you live in a free country, too.
You doing either one makes neither one a good idea.
While I realize that you love being a troll on everything I write, I'm not the one who writes the cautions about using rubber hose on fittings made for plastic hose....I'm just the guy that is aware of the problem.
Following your logic (or lack of logic). I've honestly never seen anyone injured by using a hair dryer in the bathtub, but since the manufacturers warn people not to do it, I'm going to assume that there is some sort of a problem with people doing this and therefore not do it, myself.
It's not too far a reach, for me, to assume if the rubber hose makers (in the business to sell as much hose as they can) tell people not to ever put their hose over fittings originally designed for plastic hose, there's probably a reason.
You are welcome to put rubber hose on anything you please. You can also use a hair dryer in the bathtub....you live in a free country, too.
You doing either one makes neither one a good idea.
Back to "ignore" status.
What's with the name calling? Anytime you are backed into a corner, the name calling starts to humiliate the other person. Greg there is not a single documented case of a 928 ever having a leak, let alone a fire from using fuel injection rubber hose with fuel injection clamps. Hundreds of these kids were sold and have been in 928s for about a decade. Some like mine, are used is boosted applications where the fuel pressure isn't around 40psi but around 100psi and yet none failed. Also, it's interesting how you are against the rubber hoses with clamps on barb fittings yet aren't you selling the same thing for the 16V injectors? The injector barbs might be slightly different than the fuel lines but they are still barb fittings.
What's with the name calling? Anytime you are backed into a corner, the name calling starts to humiliate the other person. Greg there is not a single documented case of a 928 ever having a leak, let alone a fire from using fuel injection rubber hose with fuel injection clamps. Hundreds of these kids were sold and have been in 928s for about a decade. Some like mine, are used is boosted applications where the fuel pressure isn't around 40psi but around 100psi and yet none failed. Also, it's interesting how you are against the rubber hoses with clamps on barb fittings yet aren't you selling the same thing for the 16V injectors? The injector barbs might be slightly different than the fuel lines but they are still barb fittings.
Again, you are full of ****. I've seen it first hand on a couple of cars that had leaks. My personal car was one of them. He calls you a troll because that's essentially what you are. One who thinks he's as smart as Kibort but using 1/4 the faculties. And we laugh at Kibort most days.
While the bickering can be really amusing, the message needs to be read. Check these fuel lines and be smart about your replacements. Here's a 1990 that showed up today for a timing belt, water pump and engine harness today. He's also getting some fuel lines.
Official Bay Area Patriot Fuse 24 Assassin Rennlist Member
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Sean, are you still using Roger's EFI hose and clamps for those U-shaped ones? I am proud to say that is the best fuel line option for replacement without breaking the bank. My clamps have not loosened at all after fixing this line back in 2013.
That radiator hose and clamp look pretty vintage too....
The belt is the same age if that gives you any clue as to what I get to do this weekend.
Originally Posted by Mongo
Sean, are you still using Roger's EFI hose and clamps for those U-shaped ones? I am proud to say that is the best fuel line option for replacement without breaking the bank. My clamps have not loosened at all after fixing this line back in 2013.
Nope, using Gregs. There are still a few of those out there that I've not been able to track down so I can change them over. Mine was one of the first ones I saw leaking a few years back, the U and clamps were on there for about 3 years but I checked it every few months. I've seen more of them with cracked outer rubber and that was enough for me to stop. I've cut each one I've replaced open to check to see how the clamps and barbs worked together and it wasn't good news at all. Some were fine, some were bad but you have to cut them off to find out.
Now that I have the SC on there I made up my own contraption.
12-10-2015 | 02:52 PM
