true?
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Three Wheelin'
Joined: Jul 2001
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From: Centennial Colorado
true?
according to the MSDS web site they say a %23!! gain on a stock motor with their headers?
If it is true, on which MY? becuase that would make a GTS have 425 hp!
http://www.msdsinc.com/exhaust_1.htm
If it is true, on which MY? becuase that would make a GTS have 425 hp!
http://www.msdsinc.com/exhaust_1.htm
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If I add a K&N air filter, cold air intake, Tornado intake thingy, Slick 50, Water Wetter, octane booster, fuel line magnets, Splitfire plugs, silicone wires, MSDS headers, and a coffee can exhaust, I should get 1125 horsepower AND 134mpg!
Most places make claims like that by building a monster engine, then having it dyno'd with the stock exhaust, then with their product, and measuring the difference. With stock cats and mufflers, you may not notice a difference. Stock motor, no cats, RMB, you might see a small gain at high rpm, or possibly even lose some low RPM torque.
Most places make claims like that by building a monster engine, then having it dyno'd with the stock exhaust, then with their product, and measuring the difference. With stock cats and mufflers, you may not notice a difference. Stock motor, no cats, RMB, you might see a small gain at high rpm, or possibly even lose some low RPM torque.
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From: Southern New England
C'mon big three; take Martin to task.
Tell us if it just ain't so, inquiring minds want to know.
(It's your duty to squash any ****-err-roaches that would take a sharkster for a ride).
Tell us if it just ain't so, inquiring minds want to know.
(It's your duty to squash any ****-err-roaches that would take a sharkster for a ride).
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From: Gilbert, AZ
Somewhat True
I inquired at MSDS a few months ago regarding the HP increase.
Bottom Line is .
Pre 87 Sharks
No Cats
I still haven't heard from anyone w/the before and after numbers.
I have MSDs headers, came with the shark, the only thing I would reccomend is having them powder coated.
Bottom Line is .
Pre 87 Sharks
No Cats
I still haven't heard from anyone w/the before and after numbers.
I have MSDs headers, came with the shark, the only thing I would reccomend is having them powder coated.
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Jun 2001
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From: Omaha, NE
I have a question about those MSDS things (that at least 1 of the big 3 do sell, byt the way). I am sure they work better than the cast iron exhaust manifolds on the early cars, BUT, do they bolt up in the same place? Just curious as I was looking into them possibly for a "down the road" upgrade.
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From: Gilbert, AZ
Originally posted by Flint
I have a question about those MSDS things (that at least 1 of the big 3 do sell, byt the way). I am sure they work better than the cast iron exhaust manifolds on the early cars, BUT, do they bolt up in the same place? Just curious as I was looking into them possibly for a "down the road" upgrade.
I have a question about those MSDS things (that at least 1 of the big 3 do sell, byt the way). I am sure they work better than the cast iron exhaust manifolds on the early cars, BUT, do they bolt up in the same place? Just curious as I was looking into them possibly for a "down the road" upgrade.
Yes, I do stand corrected. I ment to say ceramic coated rather than powder coated, in my earlier reply. MSDS offers the service for an extra fee (but of course). Strange things happen to you when your working while the rest of the world is sleeping.
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Drifting
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From: Los Angeles, CA
They are a big improvement over the old s2 manifolds.
Pretty obvious that the stock one is a bit of a bottleneck at the collector.
But the manifolds for the s4 were changed, and they are much better.
Pretty obvious that the stock one is a bit of a bottleneck at the collector.
But the manifolds for the s4 were changed, and they are much better.
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FWIW,
The picture that BC posted is of the later "tubular" style factory exhaust manifold/header, this was used starting with the S4 cars in '87. Done in monel stainless tubular, a nice piece all things considered. It can handle a lot more temp abuse than any tube steel header - won't flow as well as a well designed and built header, but monel holds up incredibly well when compared to a tube steel part - regardless of the "magical mystery coating" that's applied to the mild steel unit.
Pre 87, all cars used one a variety of the cast-iron style exhaust manifolds, even the euro cars.
The cast-iron euro manifolds have been said to flow "pretty well", but I have never actually remembered to pull a pair and compare them to the US spec when I had them around. I have also never seen any flow bench data to support that claim.
Greg
The picture that BC posted is of the later "tubular" style factory exhaust manifold/header, this was used starting with the S4 cars in '87. Done in monel stainless tubular, a nice piece all things considered. It can handle a lot more temp abuse than any tube steel header - won't flow as well as a well designed and built header, but monel holds up incredibly well when compared to a tube steel part - regardless of the "magical mystery coating" that's applied to the mild steel unit.
Pre 87, all cars used one a variety of the cast-iron style exhaust manifolds, even the euro cars.
The cast-iron euro manifolds have been said to flow "pretty well", but I have never actually remembered to pull a pair and compare them to the US spec when I had them around. I have also never seen any flow bench data to support that claim.
Greg
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From: Cambridge, Ontario, Canada
GBYRON,
You are incorrect.
The tubular exhaust manifold in the picture is of an S3 928 ('85-'86). Note the number of bolt holes as being 2 instead of the S4-Up being 3. The cast iron manifolds were were used up until, and including MY 1984 (US models).
However the S3 manifolds can be bolted up the the S2 or S models with minor modifications to the exhaust system.
Hope this helps.
You are incorrect.
The tubular exhaust manifold in the picture is of an S3 928 ('85-'86). Note the number of bolt holes as being 2 instead of the S4-Up being 3. The cast iron manifolds were were used up until, and including MY 1984 (US models).
However the S3 manifolds can be bolted up the the S2 or S models with minor modifications to the exhaust system.
Hope this helps.
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the 85-95 tubular stainless exhaust manifold IS a header !! it is efficient . The 89 GT which Ron our purchasing agent races uses stock S-4 manifolds with the Ott X -pipe (cat replacement ) it is a trailered car . With dual 2 1/2 inch pipes and magna flow mufflers he GAINED about 30 HP , stock engine . I repeat ....stock S-4 exhaust manifolds !! The Ott X pipe added nearly 20 HP . If you examine the various dyno test results for "headers" typically the cat has been eliminated or replaced since it no longer will bolt to the headers , the rest of the exhaust has been modified since it no longer will bolt to the headers , adjustable fuel pressure regulators are added (to tune for less backpressure ? ).........etc..etc... Looking at the larger diameter collector used on aftermaket headers it might seem that the stock 85-95 would be restrictive BUT if you dump it into normal sized exhaust just after the collector it makes little difference ..the flow must go through smaller pipes at some point . Tom Cloutier who has done much flow analysis I believe would agree that it is not imitative and what "looks good" often is not good . The cast iron 16 valve exhaust manifold is an ugly heavy piece of rough cast iron and should never have been used on a 928 .....nearly anything would be an improvement !! But the fact that headers help the 16 valve has little or nothing to do with the 32 valve engine (except that it is the "same" header ). We do not sell the Louis Ott X pipe ......but he does !! Nice thing about it it just bolts in place no cutting welding fabrication easily reversable in case you need to smog check it every couple years .
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I would go with the Ott pipe but then I would have NO mufflers............My cats ARE the mufflers.............
In some states while they may not check the function of the cats, they do look to see if they ares still there....................
In some states while they may not check the function of the cats, they do look to see if they ares still there....................