Carl Fausett

Happy to report our new beehive valve springs are now tested and available.

Details here: http://www.928motorsports.com/parts/...ve_springs.php

Our beehive springs are wound from super-clean ovate wire, then heat-treated to relax internal tensions and shot-peened for fatigue resistance.

The bee-hive spring style has been widely tested and improved in these last 10 years. They are a proven performer on many many engines. And now, they are available for your 32V 928!

Good articles on the bee-hive valve spring design are everywhere. But here's a good, short article you might like:

http://www.enginelabs.com/engine-tec...-work-for-you/

Carl Fausett

Beehive valve springs at work

928Myles

Carl,
what are binding & pressure spec's with these? I don't see it on your website anywhere.

Myles

Carl Fausett

Working on your answer. I have some numbers I want to confirm with our manufacturer then I'll have this for you.

ALKada

...

Imo000

The dilemma with single springs are that if they break, say goodbye to the valve too. With the double spring (like the OE setup) the second spring will create enough pressure to keep the valve closed. I'm working on a car that had outer springs break and the inner ones saved the valves and the engine.

Carl Fausett

True. In cylindrical springs, the second spring can be the only thing keeping the valve from dropping in to the cylinder when the first spring fails.

But on the other hand, cylindrical springs have a harmonic resonance that causes them to fatigue and fail, and beehive springs do not. The tendency of the cylindrical spring to create a harmonic (which is what causes them to fatigue ) is actually the reason the second spring is there!

But in the changing diameter of the beehive-wound spring, there is no constant radius, there is nearly no harmonic, and the springs do not fail. So - no need for the second spring!

Also remember the friction fit with the inner spring on a dual cylindrical spring creates heat and extra drive train load.

ptuomov

I disagree, at least for race applications. If either spring breaks at high rpms, the engine drops a valve when either spring breaks. If it wouldn't then you made a mistake picking the springs in the first place! So the single beehive spring has higher reliability. Once the car factories started squeezing the maximum efficiency out of the engines, they all went to minimum spring loads and single beehives to reduce friction.

The spring surges and harmonics etc. have over the last decades shown to be mostly an unfounded concern for beehives and to some extent to single springs in general.

ptuomov

The beehives are a good idea. I'd question the price though. Why are these better than PAC-1223 springs and the associated retainers? I got four sets at custom loads and Lizard got a couple standard load sets, and I think the standard load springs are working well for Lizard. The cost was a lot lower.

Carl Fausett

Two reasons:

1) Maybe because the guess-work has been done for you? They have been installed and tested and we went through a couple sets to find just the right ones? Maybe because YOU don't have to be the guinea pig, and try a couple sets before you get it right?

2) PAC makes good springs, no question, but their emphasis is on push-rod motors (as you can see on their website). I know. I called them with our specs and they did not have a spring for us. So I had to go to a specialist, and prices go up when you do that.

Carl Fausett

I agree. The beehive spring wind has shown to be so much better, we are starting to see them in the suspension springs now...

Carl Fausett

Myles:

Sorry for the delay. I know our seat pressure is 115 lbs on both the intake and the exhaust. We are boosted. I would use a lower seat pressure if NA. I can provide.

What I am waiting on is we have a disparity in our coil stack height. My notes have a lower number than his - and hes' traveling till Friday. Then I will synch up with him and get a good stack height number for you.

I am running a camshaft with .412" intake lift and I know that our stack height is well beyond that. Not even close.

The cams I am running at present are the 928MS 32VR4 grind here:
http://www.928motorsports.com/parts/camshafts.php

ptuomov

Who's your supplier, if I may ask? There are a lot of problems on the valve spring market with non-name suppliers selling springs that wreck motors. I'll take the US made modular Ford four-valve DOCH springs from Peterson American Corporation (PAC) with an impeccable record over any spring whose supplier I don't know. There are only a handful of aftermarket spring suppliers with a good record of never mixing in those cheap-at-purchase expensive-in-the-long-run made-in-China parts. PAC is the actual manufacturer of the springs, not just a marketing entity like Comp who packages a number of different manufacturers springs.

As far the guesswork goes, there's no guesswork in using PAC springs other than matching the spring tables with the specific cams and valvetrain masses you're planning to use. Since your offering doesn't so far list the spring table nor the list of cams for which they are applicable, I don't think you've so far taken any remaining guesswork out of the process. If I may suggest improving your product description page, maybe posting the spring load table and to which of your cams these loads are optimized.

I've got Elgin cams and spring loads that I thought would work well with those, so far those specific springs untested. I believe they'll match the profiles and valve-train weights for the application. So far it's my guess, but let's say it's an educated guess. There are three other sets with those loads with other people.

Colin has the PAC-1223 standard load springs running in actual engines with no problems. Since I don't have the digitizes profiles for his Colt cams, I can's say whether they are optimized in terms of friction losses. However, they fit and appear reliable so far. He's got a number of PAC spring sets out there.

I find it surprising that PAC didn't have a spring for you. They have beehive springs in almost every dimension (I took the time to search the database) and they can at relatively low lot charger reset the length (and thus the loads) to whatever you think your cams require.

[EDIT: I noticed you added some load and cam profile detail in your later post. Thanks, that sort of information will be useful to your customers.]

Strosek Ultra

I am using the Ferrea Beehive Valve Springs for the Ford 4.6L 16V V8 engine. With my usual discount I think they were below $400 for 32 springs. I am making the top titanium retainers and the steel bases myself. For the cams and valvetrain masses I have, the seated pressure is 37-39,5 kp and the open (net lift 12,5mm) pressure is 96-98,5 kp. It is good for up to 9000 rpm.
Åke
http://www.ferrea.com/Beehive-Valve-Springs/c7612

mark kibort

yep, we did this in scots racer.. he lost a valve spring, but the second spring kept if from getting damaged.

i guess it depends on the RPM race at. if we are using 6500rpm as redline/shift points, is it really needed?

Carl... what is the rev limiter you use on the race car that you were hitting multple times on the video? 7k?? hard to tell. sounds high though.