hacker-pschorr

This is how you adjust the clutch and what Porsche should have done.

https://rennlist.com/forums/928-foru...ch-owners.html

IMO the 1-2mm gap is a good starting point, but the only true way to adjust the clutch is with the discs disengaged and move the T-adjusted so the intermediate plate is dead centered between the discs.

Many have used a ratchet strap from the clutch fork to a rear axle. This method scared the bajesus out of me, hence the inspection hole.

My next project is making a door so I can keep this cover on versus swapping it on / off with clutch jobs.

Fronkenstein

Hacker,

Your method which is also found at sharkskin ckutch r&r page is what I used.

So why is Mark K. Saying "no no no..." to this?

Anyway why am I getting drag? I even made a cutaway bell housing cover pictured here and it works like a charm. I am going to cut a portal on the side of my permanent cover. There is no reason not to. Putting cover back in place will work just marvelous.

Anyway I am still back to drag and what i call double engagement.

I am going to try and re-center the intermediate plate when I return from Utah.

What did you use to gauge the center? I used feeler gauges. I put an equal thickness of gauges on each side of the intermediate page until there was no slack.

Let me know how you centered it.

Fronkenstein

GlenL

And Mark will be Mark.

This has worked for me on two cars and the fact that Mark doesn't understand how or why must mean it's wrong. Only his way works and it works for every Mark always!

When the clutch is engaged, the T adjusters placement allows the intermediate plate to move back enough to not touch the front disc while not too much so it keeps the back plate pressed to the pressure plate. Simple! At least simple in concept. Getting the clutch to open well is also critical.

And why does "crank them back" work? Because the T adjusters are, when working right, self-adjusting.

Fronkenstein

Glen,

I appreciate the clarity. There is a lot of religion on the list. Cars are objects contrived of man some of which are logical to the designer and completely illogical pragmatically speaking, to the user. Religion has no place in adjusting a clutch

What is sad is that Porsche never took the time, at least not that I've found, to explain the theory of operation exhaustively or otherwise. I've read many explanations here in the list, some good, some not.

For me understanding is key to doing it right and even more important is troubleshooting rather than the hunt, poke, throw-it-against-the-wall-and-see-if-sticks approach.

I read somewhere where somebody said that there is no adjustment in the master cylinder using the threaded rod. That is absolute bunk. If I adjust my pedal rod such that it compresses the fluid, my clutch will release under high acceleration with rapid RPM rise.

I will go back to Hacker's method that I've employed already, reset the adjustment. If it fails then the only other thing I can point to is a short shaft that is too worn causing the discs to hang up.

If you have other thoughts chime in.

Fronkenstein

mark kibort

Glen, you have done it two times and no one knows why.... it WONT work on a normal 2 disc car, and why would it, unless you are really puling back the pressure plate so that it clears the max H position. normal cars, this is not the case... .and by the way, this is over 6 clutch set ups and many others that have seen the same.. im not doubting it worked for you , but i am doubting that it will work for all. in fact, my way WILL work for all .. guranteed! why , because i seem to understand how it works and you dont. it's only self adjusting to a point. to a point where the pressure plate can push on the INT plate and push the Hs forward to allow it to make contact to the flywheel. IN most cars, (not yours), this distance is well over 1.5mm and will allow the rear ward motion to hit the pressure plate when the clutch is pressed it.

by the way glen, I know exactly why it works for you .. the only reason is that the pressure plate pulls the surface further than most cars and therefore doesnt allow for the INT plate to retract and hit it. its that simple, even at max position rearward,....... or the discs are worn so much so, that the INT plate will press on the front side of the H adjusters and push the H adjusters closer to the flywheel to allow contact and friction. this is not possible with full height clutch discs. as all know, at full contact, there is a gap on the front of the H adjusters as well.. if there is not, then the rear ward motion is too great and will contact the pressure plate. ive proved this time and time again and is consistent with the porsche factory manual

GLEN>>>> this is not my world, why do you think porsche specified the GAP
WHY??????????????????????? its not my design, its theirs.. dont you think if it was Self adjusting, that would be the way the manual would suggest. and by the way, ive saved a couple of friends day at the track by knowing HOW to adjust it the factory / correct way!!!!!!!!

your success is based strictly on luck, mine is based on knowledge of the system.... greg brown admitted to me that he didnt even understand the forces during the discussion many years ago... I think we all know now, except for you . you get the idea, i see that, but the "self adjusting" idea is just a lucky chance. again, not my design,...... porsche's!!!!!!!!!!!!

mark kibort

Fronkenstein... .Please listen to me... the way to adjust it, is as i have explained. pushing them all the way back (the H adjusters) is a bet that the INT plate will push the H all the way forward til contact on the flywheel and that almost never happens. however, the proper way is to gap them by 1mm or so and you will be in perfect shape.... do you understand the concept and design? 1mm, is all you need for the INT plate to retract off the flywheel.. everything will spin freely. as the discs wear, this distance gets greater until there is contact up front toward the flywheel, then the Hs can move forward.
BUT, if you push them all the way back , you are looking at max gap and that max gap in MOST cars will allow the INT plate to retract and hit the rear pressure plate surface and drag the driveline. this is not magic or guess work, its by design. trust me on this........anyone that advises anything else is betting its going to work... my way... the factory way is Guaranteed to work, PERIOD .

mark kibort

hacker, no!! this is NOT a good starting point.. in fact, 2mm is the max gap you can get anyway and its way way too much..... .75mm or 1mm at the most will be the best and only place it will work without issues , without betting on the chance that the pressure plate is pulled back further or that your discs are worn thin.
dead set middle is not the best place... in fact, we have already gone through this... ive measured dead set middle of about 1.25mm and that allows for contact rearward! again, this is why the factory specs .75 to 1mm. it is the only thing you need to adjust to and for all the right reasons.

making a window for adjustment and view is what i did and it works fantastic. its been on for 8 years now, and ive pinned mine in this .75mm position with great results..... and why wouldnt it be good... the discs are always guranteed to retract ONLY .75mm, which is all you want.

mark kibort

dont be confused... the first picture is about 1.25mm and was too much.... the second picture is about 1mm. perfect and the clutch works without dragging.
what do you mean, clutch engaged? you mean you were setting the gap with the clutch pedal depressed AND trying to set the gap?? that is NOT the way to do it. that is the problem if im reading you correctly. because that would mean that the discs are (edit) NOT (edit) resting firmly on the int plate.

no pedal depressed .... full pressure plate force pushing all the discs forward.... just adjust the gap to be 1mm or less and you will be golden.. then, if stilll dragging, its due to something else.

worf928

GTSs have a gear-driven oil pump and fluid cooler...

Fronkenstein

Mark,

The WSM indicates that there has to be equal distance between the centre plate and the forward and rear discs. Unless this is a typo I would have to err on the side of the WSM.

Also are you or anyone else suggesting that the Sharkskin expose' of the twin disc is wrong?

Finally, getting pissy with Glen or anyone else for that matter AND producing that much script is an immediate invitation for community abuse and not reading your script. I for one won't read it because I don't have the time of patience to shift through it all to find the golden nugget(s) that may help me.

To many people on this list seem to have to prove how Porsche experienced they are by reminding us how many cars they have worked on or how many years of experience they have as pro service person.

Proof is supplied by the quality of answers provided backed with proof it works more than once and is in harmony with the theory of operation. It is also strengthened by the way in which we handle our peers who heckle us.

Fronkenstein

Fronkenstein

Huh? Mark, if the pedal is pressed (clutch disengaged) how could the discs be pressing against the center plate? In fact I can show you a video that shows just the opposite. If there is no pressure being applied by the pressure plate how on earth could the discs be "firmly on the int plate"? That defies gravity, at least on my 928 it does OR there is something very very wrong with my components.

Fronkenstein

mark kibort

glen and i have a history of misunderstanding and semantic arguments. sorry to get in the way of the message. I try and stay pure and simple. my way, is the wsm way and it makes sense for how the design is. pulling the H's all the way back is a formula that will not work always. making a gap of 1mm is the best way, because it works for the reasons of the design.
think of it like this... you might get lucky pushing them all the way back. but with my way, it will always work ... .you make the choice.

mark kibort

What i meant, is you want the discs firmly pressed on the flywheel no pedal pressure. then adjust. the next sentence i say this . typo ..... .sorry
I was reading your post and interpreting that you were pushing the pedal to the floor and adjusting...... is that right?

Fronkenstein

Well I was not able to get even 1mm by forcing them back. Maybe 0.5mm at best.

Fronkenstein

Fronkenstein

Yes you are correct the pedal was pressed. As I said I will attempt your method, however I suspect this will not solve the issue because when I installed the assembly it was dead on. But who knows.

Fronkenstein