Guys, I know enough about the 928 to be dangerous. But I've fallen in love with a '79 with 5 speed and sunroof, two of my mandates.
So, what 5 questions should I ask about this car?
I must write that after lurking around here these cars sound mechanical nightmares and should be avoided at any cost! Please tell me that's not true.

Oh and hi to everyone. I live near Chicago in case anyone is nearby.

 

I should mention this 928 has only 67,000 miles

 

John they were very expensive cars when new......they still are. Plan on spending at least $2,500 a year keeping one in good running condition. If it has been neglected, and MOST have. You can easily spend two or three times that just catching up. Nearly everything rubber or plastic under the hood is well beyond it's design life.
So go price a new front engine wiring harness, radiator, steering rack, gas tank , a/c compressor, clutch parts for some of the things still available. A number of other things are discontinued like the plastic foil circuit board for all the instruments....
Over the years I have spent (not invested) over $10,000 on my old very brown 1980 which I bought for less than $2,000 and on a good day I might be able to get $2,000 for it Many others here will admit to that or more....some very much more !!
So yes being in LOVE is the beginning because love is an emotion therefore by definition not rational, logical, or necessarily in your best interests. 928s make a great hobby if you enjoy working on your own cars.

 

Is true what the venerable Jim Bailey says.
Aside from driving the car, planning work and carrying it out is my hobby at my age now. I do all the work, big and small. This markedly keeps my expenditures down. If you are going to have another do the work, two things to keep in mind. First, use only a 928 knowledgeable mechanic recommended by the guys here. Second, be prepared to pay for this.
Start a thread here about who is recommended to do a PPI (Pre Purchase Inspection) in your area. This would be wise. Read the New Visitor thread at the top of the page as well.
Best Wishes.
Craig

 

Hi John,

First off, I have one of those weird, hardly active looking profiles. I really have been a member for 7 years with a grand total of 3 posts but I'm primarily an air cooled 911 guy. I've had my 928 since December and am on here reading and searching almost daily. Your post however, has motivated me to actually make my first 928 posting... Mine is a 78 5spd, I too fell in love with it instantly. Wasn't looking for a 928, always loved them and there were the posters on my wall as a kid. Your message sounds like me 8 months ago.

Few questions for you to consider and ponder as you make the call to buy the 79...

1. How good of a mechanic are you and how good of one do you want to be? If you think the 79 is just another 70s era Porsche you may want to rethink that. I naively thought that. This car was Porsche showing off from an engineering standpoint--ESPECIALLY the early ones as compared to what they were doing with 911s then. My 911 is a 76 C3, my 2 years newer 928 is like the space shuttle in comparison. It's a complicated, yet fascinating beast.

2. Do you golf? Are you like most of the rest of us who have played golf and generally aren't great at it but a few times per round you hit an amazing shot that some how creates an amnesia affect as it relates to the 20 lost ***** and other normal golfing frustrations. All you want to do is come back again for the chance of getting that feeling you had with that 250 yard drive that went were you "aimed." The equivalent in the 928 world (for sake of the analogy) is simply driving the car. They are amazing to drive, they really are. It makes you forget everything else that is incredibly frustrating about them otherwise.

3. Like Mr. Bailey said... You will spend huge money catching up and MOST have been neglected by the POs. At first I was excited by how "original" my car was... Had the full tool kit, original radio, and even the original spare bulbs still packaged in their little orange plastic box. Then I came to realize that pretty much EVERYTHING was original! Everything rubber, every single component of the suspension, fuel lines, hell in not going to keep this list going but just picture everything a 37 year old car could need but was never done. At one point I actually thought a number of my vacuum hoses in the engine were moulded plastic, oddly brittle plastic... They weren't, they were rubber at some point in their lives. 😁. Point of all that is that you will be doing a complete restoration whether you know it or not and generally just to get it to what I call "stable." AKA, caught up. Then you drive it, and all the nightmares go away.

Of course you could get lucky and yours is already all sorted and fine. Lol.

4. Have you ever googled places to buy dynamite? Don't laugh, there is a good chance at some point in your life with your early 928 that you may very well start casually looking for deep rock quarries. But that all passes the second you drive it.

So my honest opinion... don't do this to yourself. Everything you've heard and mentioned about these cars really is based on a degree of truth. Not by design, but because they just were not properly cared for by their previous owners. the whole "928s like to catch on fire" thing is perhaps the best example. They are not fire hazards but 37 year old rubber fuel lines down near the exhaust need to be replaced from time to time. Get the point on the previous owner thing? 😄

I hate my 928, until each time I drive it. I know I'm coming across a bit jaded but I'm trying to give you an honest perspective. I'm typing this sitting under my car (on the lift above me) I just put my motor back in after replacing the head gaskets. All I can say is that I am really looking forward to the amnesia I'm going to get tomorrow when I get out on the road with her.


Best of luck!

Robbie

78 928 5spd
76 Carrera3.o

 

Almost forgot... Pictures-- everyone loves seeing pictures.

Robbie

 

See the folding chair in the first picture (above post)...every 928 owner has one. But what you don't see...is the noose hanging directly above.

But seriously.

I've been pretty fortunate with my first 928, l just drive it now. Most of what I read about here...has never happened to me...yet. My 84 was garage kept all of its life, which is a big deal in my opinion. Car was all original, 78,000 miles, and had never had TB or WP. So, after doing the timing belt, water pump, fuel lines, tune up and some other stuff...I've basically had nothing to do with it besides a few minor repairs. Every bolt and nut I've removed or loosened came apart easily, even while adjusting ride height...all adjusters moved freely.

My problem is...well one of them...lol...is I bought this car for a retirement project prior to retiring...and its already pretty much done. So with that in mind...in a few days...my "next" two retirement project will arrive. One will hopefully be a show car quality adventure and the other a dismantle or track car (wife says NO to the latter and yes to the former...lol).

Anyhow, these cars can be addictive. Especially, if you get yourself a well sorted out one to begin with. They are a pleasure to drive and still turn the occasional head. If you've never owned or worked on a 928 before...I'd surely look for someone that has...especially to do your PPI and help guide you into asking the right questions.

A couple things you can ask...

1. Has the timing belt, waterpump or rubber fuel lines been changed lately?
2. How long has the car been sitting or how many miles a year do you drive it?
3. Ask for all information about documented previous repairs?
4. Has the car ever been in an accident (check the under side for damaged)?
5. See if he has any parts that may have been changed out (the original stuff is hard to come by or expensive to replace)?

Things you can do...

1. Check fluid levels, before and after driving.
2. Drive the car more than once, and start the engine several times after it is warmed up. It should fire right up after a couple rotations.
3. Make sure everything works, washers, wipers, heat control, etc...all of this stuff adds up if they need repaired later.
4. Look at the car...and LEAVE...and then come back a day later and look at it again. You will be amazed at what you didn't see the first time.
5. Look the interior over good, these items can run a small fortune to replace (especially seat coverings).

Good luck, with your purchase.

Brian.

 

Old blacky.

A day at the lake.



Dirty, tired and home from a Mad Max type run.



Also, I figure after saying all of the nice things about her previously, being not much to work on, her engine will probably seize on the way to work today...lol.

And yes...you too will find yourself on a ladder taking pictures of your car...if you get one.

Brian.

 

All true points. If you are not scared yet, give it a shot. At least you know where to market it if you give up and decide to sell. Heck I have 2 now, so if you like to constantly tinker, and need a good hobby, why not?

Good luck. If you decide to buy, this is a support group like none other.

 

First thing to do is read the FAQ thread at the top of the page of this forum. There is much information in there about these cars.

Second, why just 5 questions? Ask as many as you need.

Yes you will spend some money on it if you get it, but it may not be so bad. 67K miles is a nice low miles car, and I expect it will be in pretty good shape at that level. Also, there is a lot less rubber in the engine bay of these early cars, parts are generally cheaper than the later ones, and these early motors are easier to work on. Frankly, I do not find these cars difficult to tinker with. In fact my Mustangs and Boxster were in many cases more involved.

I've had 3 sharks. None of them broke me financially. Just do a lot of your own work, stick with the known 928 vendors through this site, and you'll be fine. These cars are not all gloom and doom. Just get one that isn't trashed, and it will be a great ride.

 

I love Robbie' s (mazing3) story because it is so true!

 

Lots of good advice here.

They are not 'mechanical nightmares." They are 35 (ish) year old cars. While there are lots of parts that are "mileage dependent", there are lots (maybe even more) that are "age dependent." You will need to do a fair amount of work (or pay to have it done). This is not any different than any other older car.

Something to keep in mind while reading this forum is that the "help me, I have a problem" threads outnumber the "Hey my car is so great" threads. Mainly because people don't take the time and trouble to post good stuff as much as they do when they need help.
Properly sorted and maintained, they are absolutely amazing cars. I took mine to California (from Wisconsin) and back last spring. 4500 miles in six and a half days. Amazing trip. Others have done similar stuff.

My suggestions:

Read the "New Visitor" sticky. Full of great info.

Get a good PPI. There are a few good indy wrenches in the Chicago area. There are more than a few Chicago guys on here.

Go to the "Sharks on the Mississippi" gathering next weekend (18th & 19th). It's over in Dubuque, put on by a really good guy. You don't need a 928 to attend, they guys there will be more than happy to tell you about their cars, show you their cars, tell you stories about their cars, point out what to look for, tell you what they've done to their cars, take you for a ride in their cars, tell you stories about their cars and, oh yeah, they like to talk about their cars, too.
You will learn a lot, meet a bunch of really good guys and come away with a much better understanding of the cars.

There's a "sticky" at the top about the event. I went last year, but work prevents me from going this year (which sucks).

 

Yeah sure nice car(s) and all ... but My God, that garage! I would love to have that space!!

Sorry to get off thread, back to the 928 ownership thing:

I pulled the trigger on a later car because I wanted the silly dash computer and the 32v goodness. I knew I would have to fix a lot of things, and I am. But I'll echo what others have said here - there is no single chronic ailment for these cars. It's all just age and wear and your particular cars history of attention/neglect/climate/etc. I've found mine to be an excuse to buy a lot of tools and spend a lot of time in my (tiny, un-climate controlled, spider and wasp infested) garage. If you're looking to buy a lot of tools and spend a lot of time in a garage, then you're set! If you aren't... well... is the joy of the car worth paying for someone else to spend a lot of time in the garage and buy a lot of tools?

 

Keith, that garage space is likely the seller's, since the OP is still contemplating the purchase. Wouldn't that make a nice package deal though?

---

So my questions might be...

-- Why is the engine out of the car?

Neglected cars, even unintentionally neglected very low-mileage cars, end up with cooling system corrosion problems as the deteriorating coolant munches away at every corner of aluminum block and head. Seems that the top of the block and the heads at the headgasket interface are particularly tasty. It's more than a casual challenge [read: almost impossible] to change the gaskets with the engine in the car. So relating "low miles" with "driven infrequently" and "neglected time-sensitive maintenance", and your picture of the engine out, makes me wonder. Regardless of what it was out for, you'd love to have the seller's pictures of what they found and fixed.

-- Who has worked on the car?

If it's the seller as the pictures might indicate, look at the quality of their work, both this car and any others that might be handy. The engine picture shows some additional painting done, particularly the red on the cam covers and the oil separator. That's a matter of taste on that stuff. But the color of the lower block and the oil sump looks way to even, indicating that they might have painted the bottom part silver. IMO, cleaning the aluminum produces the preferred finish; painting is too often used to hide stuff. Call me cynical.

--- How does it drive?

Find a local owner who has a similar ('77-79 OB) car and get their driving impressions. The CIS fuel injection is something that really insists on regular use to avoid the ravages of age and fuel varnishing. I'd much rather have a regularly-driven high-mileage CIS system than one driven once in a while and not preserved correctly after each use. CIS cars should start almost instantly hot or cold, for instance. (This is something the later LH cars won't always do, incidentally). Anyway, a knowledgeable driving impression will help you plan your first catch-up duties.

-- How does it shift?

The early cars with pre-Borg Warner synchro's require a little more care to keep the gearbox alive and happy. The dual-disk clutch, if allowed to slip out of adjustment due to corrosion for instance, will punish the gearbox by not disengaging completely. The very popular in traffic downshifts into second gear will tell you a lot about the history of the car's gearchanges. Gearbox restoration is not for the faint of budget, with more parts moving to NLA status as the years go by.


------------

My standard recommendation to prospective owners is to budget at leat an extra $5k for replacement of critical rubber and wear parts to make the car safe to drive. That's the parts budget. Looking more recently at the costs of suspension bits, that number can drift higher quickly.

Particularly on the early cars, it's vital that the lower front balljoints be updated from the original aluminum to steel parts; More than a few unsuspecting owners who chose to "monitor" those rather than replace them have discovered that a front wheel folds under as they turn into a driveway apron and unload the suspension enough to let the ball separate from the cup.

The Rennlist 928 community is very supportive, knowledgeable, etc. In a major metro area like Chicago, you'll find others who are willing to put another educated/experienced set of eyes on the car with you. Call it an early-screening inspection. Armed with a couple different PPI checlists, each of you can go over the car and generate a list of yes/no answers to important questions. Then go over the car to search for evidence of accident damage, rust, and other out of character deterioration.

Last but not least, I'll reinforce Jim Bailey's sage reminder that you are buying an almost 40 year old car, one that was relatively rare and expensive when it as new. At the time, Porsche was carefully selecting ownership candidates for their flagship cars. Perhaps mimicking what Ferrari was doing with their cars, they wanted to make sure that the pedigree of the new owners lined up with the market segment they were targeting for their flagship car. In present money, think about buying a new supercar in the $150k+ range. Now, decades later, you will be the caretaker of that aging supercar. It still has all its supercar habits and needs, compounded by the effects of age, and of course those habits aren't cheap. I'm not trying to scare you off, just trying to ready you for the ownership experience.


------


Part of the joy of ownership, at least for me, is the therapeutic value that comes with keeping it happy and healthy through its mid-life years. There's pleasure to be had doing the work on it keeping it nice, and obviously there's another pleasure in driving it. Mine was a daily driver until just a couple years ago, supplemented in that duty by another car. In SoCal where the weather was almost always nice, the 928 would get the nod for anything that didn't require hauling things or being parked somewhere less than perfectly safe. Now in central Oregon, duty is more seasonal with no serious weather exposure. It's maintained in always ready-to-drive, ready-to-show condition, in case I need to get to New York in a hurry and for some reason choose not to fly. Just throw a couple sets of clubs and weekend luggage in the boot and we are good to go. Driving is a great experience too. There aren't many others on the road these days, and will be fewer and fewer as time goes on.

As far as "investment" value, I tossed that idea out the window before I picked the car up coming up on 20 years ago. The Good News is that I could easily sell it for what I payed for it. Somewhere in the fog there is the reality that the costs of keeping it dramatically exceed the original purchase number. Cars are inevitably a losing investment. The appreciation comes from that thereapy with the wrenches mentioned earlier, and the idea that the 928 is a piece of automotive art. I get to be the caretaker of that piece of art, get to display it carefully and properly so that others may share it.

Meanwhile, I need to go order new rear tires for it. Works out to about $125/year just for rear tires. Welcome to the 928 family!

 

Ummm...

The garage and car with engine removed in post #6 isn't the OP.