RoHo

Hey Rennlist community! This is my first post, but I hope not to vanish. I've been following these forums out of passion for these cars for a long time and experienced them through my fathers ownership of various Porsches and Im hoping to get my own.

I've been looking at an '88 S4 5-speed with 73k thats just had water pump, belts replaced, and new rear tires. From checking out the VIN mileage reports it seems that from 2000 to now it hasn't been driven more than 100 miles. From '00 to '05 it was continually checked for emissions and had its title renewed. Then when it failed in '05 the records stopped so Im guessing it has completely sat since then. It is from some sort of small classic european car dealer and they are asking 15,000.

I wish I had more information to offer but I've only talked on the phone with the guy once, but will call him again when I have more to ask about to decide whether or not to bother driving to it(2.5 hours). Apart from the fuel lines what else should I ask about? And in the situation that the car does not have service records should I even bother going to look at it?

In the case that he has replaced everything a longterm sitter would need is 15k a good price? And if the recently replaced items stops at what I have listed where would that put the car price wise?

Thanks in advance for any help y'all can provide.

rgs944

It sounds like a good one to get if everything checks out. My advice is the best owners of these cars are usually people who can wrench on it themselves. Unless you live near a qualified 928 mechanic like Sean Raits or Greg Brown but don't expect to get good 928 service at the dealer.

Fogey1

I counsel patience and research. You write, "I've been following these forums out of passion for these cars for a long time and experienced them through my fathers ownership of various Porsches and Im hoping to get my own." I hope you've been following this particular forum. If you have, none of what I'm about to say will come as a surprise.

Where are you? Where's the car?

The two sentences that, taken together, make this scary: "I've been looking at an '88 S4 5-speed with 73k that's just had water pump, belts replaced ... It is from some sort of small classic european car dealer"

The reason for apprehension is that this dealer is likely to have been the one that did timing belt and water pump service. Not that they're bad guys but ...

Read this thread, and the links within, attentively:
"NEW VISITOR? Here are some answers to frequently asked questions."
https://rennlist.com/forums/928-foru...questions.html

And make make no moves, precipitate or otherwise, without a PPI. Or, at the very least, a visit to the car in the company of a VERY KNOWLEDGEABLE 928 guy. The car might be a great deal or might be a money pit - OR -
it might be an incredible money pit.

I'm reminded of Clint Eastwood's eternal question "Do ya feel lucky, RoHo? Well, do ya?"

Mrmerlin

based on the info provided and without any pictures,
I would say the car is priced about 10K too hi.

Read the FAQ for more info?
I suggest to put your checkbook away for now, your not ready to buy a 928.

Figure out what you plan to do with this car ,
who will fix it,
how much do you have to spend?
How soon do you want to be driving this car?

RoHo

Wow, I appreciate all the quick informative replies. It seems I've not provided enough info about myself and intents here. The majority of my experience with engine work has been with C5 LS1's. Transmission work has never been something I've been comfortable with but from my understanding these if properly cared for go a long way. Im currently in college and don't put many miles on my cars. Since everything is in walking distance from me I wouldn't be screwed when something breaks or if I am in a lengthy repair. I have 3 or 4 grand a year budgeted for maintenance.

I would by no means be rushing into a purchase as I have a perfectly solid means of transportation at the moment, but at the same time Im not planning on wasting my time test driving cars that I wouldn't even feasibly buy (so continued advise on the vehicle is ideal). The only urgency involved here is of course it being a fairly low mileage S4 with a 5 speed which was exactly what I was looking for when I started looking into the market a couple years back. Seeing prices start to pick up more has also inspired me to be more active in the search.

My main concern is the price combined with the fact that it has probably sat for 10+ years. Paying 15,000 for a car that was just woken up seems high but at the same time the bigger ticket items being the belts and pump already having been done makes me think this could be reasonable.

Thanks again for the continued advice.

jetson8859

The above advice should be considered heavily. I purchased my 87S4 (rogerbox) a year ago April and I can tell you that unless all major mechanical is solid you will blow thru $3-4K very, very quickly and even quicker if you can't wrench for yourself. Things like torque tube, power steering rack, suspension pieces, electrical issues and possibly every single rubber piece and gasket under the hood if it hasn't been running for 10 years will add up extremely quickly (ask me how I know). Had I known then what I know now, would I have bought this particular car....probably not BUT I would have still bought a 928. Fortunately I was at a place, having the time and resources, where I could make her a very dependable driver but it wasn't cheap, quick or easy. And like many on here, i am still not done....

docmirror

The price is about double what it should be, depending on paint and int condition. Here's a real world example, as I'm a bottom feeding tinkerer.

I bought an 88S4 auto in Sept last year. It was in ok, but not great condition, and I paid less than half this asking price. So far, I've got $900 in timing belt, water pump, seals, cam gear, etc. I'm spending $800 on some small dent repair, and repaint the bumper covers. The AC and heat weren't working and I've gotten them functional with help from a buddy, but a shop would have gone about $500 for getting it taken care of. My fuel hoses are good, and it only needed about $200 of engine bits to make it run right.

Things left to do: Dash recover, and pod repair - $700 as long as I do most of it myself. HVAC actuators, and maybe some of the solenoids - $400. Top end refresh, including all new rubber under there, and knock sensors, as well as some powder coating on the intake and cam covers - $1600. Drivers seat bolster repair - $150.

Add up what I've spent so far, and what still needs to be done and I'm at $4750 plus the price of the car. If your fuel hoses are toast, if your torque tube bearings are going out, if you clutch needs doing, you're gonna spend some real money on a car that you won't be driving much.

If you can get it for around $7000 or a bit more, you're on par for a decent driver provided the paint and int are ok. I counsel you to just wait and watch the car sit, and sit, and sit for months. It'll be priced at $11,000 in 4-6 months. Go in and offer 7 cash now and see where it goes. If you don't get this one, another will come along that will do. If you don't wrench on these cars yourself, be prepared for big, big bills. And never ever take it to a Porsche dealer for work.

James Bailey

Owning a 928 is probably a very bad idea....concentrate on getting the most out of school... the luxury toys come later.

RoHo

Well at this point I've been pretty convinced this is a lot more trouble than enjoyment and coming from a Corvette it'll probably wear on me going slower for way more $$$. Im buying a 997.5 for pretty cheap soon when a relatives office moves further away from him so do keep in mind I would only need this car for 2 or 3 years. I will probably still call the dealer and get more backstory because at this point only driving maybe 2000 miles a year and nearly all my income being disposable I don't ever see a better time for a car like this.

Thankyou all for the warnings, Im probably good on those. But if anyone else has input to do with the car I would appreciate it (personal example was great docmirror).

RoHo

Just got off the phone with the seller of the vehicle. I asked more about the upkeep. He said that the vehicle was running when they got it and all they did was service the car. He said he did a "complete service" which with a car this old really didn't answer many questions haha. But upon further questioning he said he had changed all the seals, the pump, and the timing chain. Im going to heed the advice to wait the guy out on the price. The fact that he called me first tells me a good bit about interest in the car he has had thus far. To me from the pictures (which look like they were taken with a flip phone camera) show the car is in excellent shape aesthetically. The seats show no wear, dash is perfect, and the paint looks good (but again the camera sucked so jury is out on the paint. The rear spoiler still has a lot of its color in it which makes me think this car wasn't stored outside.

Now I think its fairly possible the seller is full of s**t and that the car has sat the past 10 years because I wouldn't expect a small dealer with their margins to just randomly replace the 2 things that usually park these cars for extended periods. But alas with the information provided I would consider this to not be a complete waste of my time.

SeanR

If they tell you that the timing chain and water pump were changed, run far away just after you laugh at him for lying to you. There isn't a timing chain but a 7 foot belt.

oldfrat

RoHo

I bought my first 928 in September. I absolutely love it. But, if I had a college age son who wanted to buy one (mine are now older), I would do my best to discourage him. You are going to have a lot of demands on your available funds in the next 20-30 years. Wait until cash flow is no longer an issue for you, then enjoy!

It is not that I think a 928 is an unusually high maintenance cost car among its peer group. It is more that this is a peer group to be avoided until covering the more important costs of life is no longer an issue.

Looking at it as an investment where you can put your mechanical skills to use, it is also not super attractive. You'll probably do better with Corvettes and houses.

To put this in perspective, I've owned two 1967 Corvettes, enjoyed the heck out of them and sold both
with impressive profits. If I was looking for an investment, I would buy another '67 Vette. If I was looking for a marvelous GT for the Interstates that also handles the 2-lane twisties way better than a '67 Vette, I'd go for a 928. Any decent mechanic can fix a '67 Corvette. Parts are easy to find and not terribly expensive. The fact that the majority of people on this board will advise you to never take your 928 to a Porsche dealer says a lot.

Now that I have helped to scare you off for now, I do hope you will reconsider a 928 when you are ready for it. I'll be dead by then, but others will be happy to welcome and help you.
+
Brad

Mrmerlin

if your cash amount your willing to pay is near 16K then there are better sorted out examples to pursue,
I would be looking at a daily driver , this means its a car that fixed well enough to be trusted to operate as intended every day.

Buying a car that has been sitting is going to cost you more in down time and fixing it cash than a daily driver car would.

The upside to the daily driver is that you wont have a shadow living in your garage for the next 6 months while you hunt down parts and tools and research how to fix all of the different systems on the car.
Your daily driver will take you coast to coast, today!

RoHo

Alright thanks for the help. I'm gonna go ahead and let this dream die. A reality dose is the healthiest thing for a bank account. The reason I bought my C5 in the first place was their ease of ownership and not too many worries when you beat on them. Thanks again for the help everybody and much respect for keeping these on the road so I can still atleast look at them haha.

Mrmerlin

That said I have a Black/ Black 85 Euro 5 speed with GTS brakes and sport seats and cold AC, bilstien shocks, new MMs and TT bearings OPG Belts and pump done.. new clutch.
You know sorted out you could go to Ca right now
its sorted out and a daily driver.
12K its yours