Speedtoys

At what point of compression?

I wasnt aware Eibach made linear 928 springs...only progressively stiff ones.

Handling nightmare...imho.

FredR

Jeff,

Interesting that we have somewhat different understandings.

As I am aware the stock springs are dual rate with the body weight taking up most of the initial rate. Thus when you enter a bend I found it sort of hesitated before taking bite, no real world problem just felt uncomfortable with it.

As I am aware the Eibach spring set for the 928 [or at least the set I purchased] was developed in conjunction with Kim Crumb for both track and high performance street driving and my fading memory tells me they are a single spring rate. I know Eibach make all kinds of weird and wonderful springs for the automobile industry but as I am aware mine at least are not one of them.

All I can say is that I was well pleased with the results after fitting them, the twitchiness I referred disappeared and have been driving around on them for some 13 years on two iterations. Whether or not they are getting a bit tired by now all I can say is that I have a feeling the handling is not as taught as it used to be but that could be the dampers [Bilstein gas on the rear] getting a bit tired or other bushes in the suspension just not being as firm as they once were- not too surprising given I am not as supple as I was 15 years ago.

Trust we are not getting too far off topic here- apologies if we are- but I have been looking for a solution to the camber adjustment issue for a while if nothing else to eliminate it from the list of possibilities. Correct me if I am wrong but if the camber should slip the tires will also toe out in reaction and that may possibly cause some loss of traction.

After I have finished my current round of maintenance issues [it simply never ends] I intend to revisit the handing department completely. Perhaps time for a pair of Koni internally adjustables like the front end set up.

Regards

Fred

mark kibort

what is your rear toe setting...that can be part of the problem. however, if you cant get to 1 degree rear camber (not that you sound like that you want that) you must have something else out of wack. the dogbones will show bend if you have an issue there. can you send some pics of your set up ?
how are you measuring camber? if you have a bubble level, just hold it flat to the bottom of the tire and measure the distance to vertical up top. you want about 15 to 20mm (near 1.5 to 2degrees) will work for the rear camber.
lowering the car is a good thing for handling, and it sounds like its not excessively low like a race car, but in a performance range. that's good, and the lower camber setting is a good idea , if you have strong springs as well. (less roll means less requirement for camber).

for a track DE type car, its a good all around spring... scot races on them, ive driven that car a lot, and others with these springs. they work well. oviously the race stuff works better and is more adjustable, but the eibachs do a great job of lowring the car, and stiffening it up to more of a current performance car type feel.

you just may have a problem like Carl has suggested, but I have never seen those effects on the adjusters. The springs should be good, and its just possible you have too much toe out if it feels a little squirrelly
something could be loose back there too. how are the tires? size and brand?

FredR

Mark,

The camber was recorded on the Hunter alignment rig but I need to check that it has been sustained. The tyres are Continental- design is Contisport 2 [I think] and are 295x30x18 sections- excellent street/high performance tyres. Our heat over here kills tires and after 3 summer seasons they are past their best however, they still grip in the bends so logic suggests they should grip at the lights but from new they have struggled in this area thus why I think something is less than optimal.

If the camber has slipped it is not by some huge amount- I can tell from visual inspection that is not the case. The front wheels are set at -2 camber and the rear wheels are not obviously different. As I said earlier in the post I set toe-in in the middle of the acceptable stock range to give more bite- earlier settings with minimal toe gave me real problems getting drive out of tight bends.

The top end of the camber adjustment shoulder is definitely gouged and was like that when I purchased the car. I could get -1.5 on the passenger side but not on the driver side - the lowest setting I could get was minus 1.75 degrees. As I wanted -1.5 degrees I was not too perturbed but had a problem at the last alignment and had to set them -2 on both sides to get them the same [the alignment tech I was instructing undid the camber adjuster when I was not paying attention- I had earlier told him not to touch it]. Whether or not that additional 0.5 degrees makes a difference on a standing start take off I do not know- all I do know is that it is not like the take off I got when I had the S4 even though this car is powered by the same motor.

If it cools off a bit later this afternoon I will try to get a photo or two to show the damage [as requested by Carl]- for sure it exists and when the adjuster is rotated to the min setting point there is air between the cam adjuster and the inner stop of around 1/8th of an inch. By manually pushing the wheel inwards whilst the car is in the air one can get the minimum position possible & this is when I got it down to about minus 1.75 on the driver side. The gap takes it to 2 degrees- note when the locking bolt is slack for adjustments the assembly naturally takes restraint/slides to the damaged outer face. Carl's picture replicates my situation.

Rgds

Fred

FredR

Carl,

As requested-this is the drivers side looking rearwards- you can see how the adjuster has punched into the shoulder and the gap on the other side. The passenger side is a little better but not much.

Also a pic of the dog bone for Mark- I think I see signs of compression in the bush- doubtless the compression will be the same both ends. Hopefully it will explain the excessive adjustment range limitations

Rgds

Fred

Speedtoys

..except, IMHO, before and AFTER the point where it is 'stiffer', where it is much 'softer', and your shocks never ever respond to compression and rebound the same.

Entirely my own experience, as the worst thing I ever did to a car I loved was Eibach springs..and I blamed the car until someone showed me the light on what was going on.

Tom in Austin

On my car, I got back about a half a degree of neg camber by replacing the bushings in the dogbones ...

FredR

Tom,

Thanks for the info- I am looking to recover about 2 degrees lower to get back to stock capability- not that I need it given I like to run -1.5 degrees. Thus if my dog bone bushes are like yours repairing the adjuster with Carl's mod and restoring the bushes I should get down to at least -1 camber and that is adequate for my type of setup.

I remain intrigued as to why the adjustment is so far out. I have tended to rule out mechanical damage unless someone previously took a huge bottom out and something bent both sides. I cannot see any signs of this and neither could the main dealers when I asked them to take a look into this.

I am hoping to remove the drivers side dog bone tomorrow all being well if I manage to finish my ongoing activities- I can only manage about 3 hours a stint in the current 40C plus heat then I am drained. That assumes I can get them undone of course- one advantage over here is zero corrosion- just full of accumulated dust and oil mist in a few places.

Regards

Fred

Carl Fausett

Fred - that "dog bone" aka "upper link" and "banana link" you posted a pic of in #20 shows significant signs that the bushings are compressed on the one side only. Just old, and they've taken a set.

Replace with our polyurethane-equipped banana links and you will get that camber back...

http://www.928motorsports.com/parts/banana_link_kit.php