Raced an ‘03-04 Yamaha YZF-R1 Super Bike…
02-22-2008, 02:50 AM
#316
Pro
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Boston
Posts: 747
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I remember this thread was current when I first joined the forums here, funny to see it still kicking around. Definitely one of the best kill threads ever 
I've never been pulled on by a car when riding a sportbike, but then again I haven't raced a boosted shark or anything that insanely fast!
Boost and other speed options for 928s sure have come a long way in the past 5 years or so, isn't it awesome?!?
I've never been pulled on by a car when riding a sportbike, but then again I haven't raced a boosted shark or anything that insanely fast!
Boost and other speed options for 928s sure have come a long way in the past 5 years or so, isn't it awesome?!?
02-23-2008, 01:35 AM
#317
Been away for awhile...
I luv ALL sHARKs, but...
If that bike was bangin on all cylinders...and had a rider who really wanted to RUN it would be no contest.
Not off the line, not zero to 60mph, not 60 to 80 ( that bike in 6th would jump 20mph in the 2.6-3.2 second range depending on rider weight, headwind, reflexes, additional speed range... ad nauseaum...
Assuming at least one downshift -probably several if he was serious- as quick as you may be, you lose.
Just wouldn't happen folks.That includes the 600cc story. Don't even consider the old 750 carb'ed let alone FI. And It would be an embarassment to to even consider tangling with a suzy 1000.
Awesome sHARKs none-the-less.
I luv ALL sHARKs, but...
If that bike was bangin on all cylinders...and had a rider who really wanted to RUN it would be no contest.
Not off the line, not zero to 60mph, not 60 to 80 ( that bike in 6th would jump 20mph in the 2.6-3.2 second range depending on rider weight, headwind, reflexes, additional speed range... ad nauseaum...
Assuming at least one downshift -probably several if he was serious- as quick as you may be, you lose.
Just wouldn't happen folks.That includes the 600cc story. Don't even consider the old 750 carb'ed let alone FI. And It would be an embarassment to to even consider tangling with a suzy 1000.
Awesome sHARKs none-the-less.
02-23-2008, 01:01 PM
#318
Rennlist Member
The bike:
http://www.yamaha-motor.com/products...cy&cid=5&mid=6
Specs:
http://www.yzf-r1forum.com/specs.html
We were on our way back from Road America late Sunday afternoon licking our wounds as us Wisconsin 928 guys had a rough weekend. 928 #1: Tim Murphy and Jim Page, 928 #2: Hacker Pschorr, 928 #3: myself and Z.
Saturday morning on the way to Road America, the 26 psi Red S4 finally blew a head gasket on cylinder 4. Sunday on the way to Road America, Tim contracted a weeping head gasket at 14psi trying to unsuccessfully pull away from me. During the race, Jean-Louis was driving fabulously and crunched the passenger side in the ‘Kink’ after the car ahead of him went off and on the track dragging debris onto the track; JL ‘slowly’ drifted through the dirt at 110-120 mph finally hitting the wall.
*EDIT*
The car ahead of Jean-Louis blew an engine, and it was an oil slick and off-road debris that he encountered on the track.
We were in the middle of nowhere in rural Wisconsin without another car in sight when we came across a pack of about 10 Harley Davidson’s 2 abreast in the right lane. Tim slowly passes in the left lane and is finally out in front of them as does Hacker Pschorr, when I notice at this point the lead bike on the outside squirts ahead and matches speed with Tim.
I jab Z and say, ‘Crap, that guy wants to race Tim!’ It then becomes apparent the bike isn’t a Harley as it’s blue, full fairing, a huge rear tire, and a single large exhaust sweeping upward on the right side of the bike. I’m thinking to myself, oh man, I hope Tim doesn’t try to race him with his bruised head gasket.
I was clueless as to what was going to happen until I see Hacker Pschorr’s hand come out of the driver’s window waving me forward. I’m thinking, oh man, do I have to race this guy?
Next I see Tim’s hand come out his window waving me forward! I’m thinking, ‘Holy ****, I have to race this guy!’
In the meantime, Tim slows up so he can get behind the bike in the right lane so that I can move to the front in the left lane and stage, but the bike slows down too and matches Tim’s speed as he thinks Tim is getting ready and staging for the start.
As I squeeze by Tim, I double clutch from 5th to 4th, and 4th to 3rd matching my revs to my speed, and am now spinning around 4k RPM, right in the sweet spot. I get in front of Tim, and the bike catches on to what's happening and squirts up to the passenger door; Z has a front row seat!
We settle in at around 60 mph and I lean forward to look at the bike and rider, and the rider is crouched forward with his left hand off the bars and behind his back. I was thinking at the time he was doing that for aerodynamics.
I see the bike jump, I nail the throttle, and we’re off!
Out of my peripheral vision, I can’t see the bike. I keep my eyes on the road and tach, and pull a clean shift at 6.4k RPM. With the shift complete, I look for the bike and it wasn’t until I looked in the rearview mirror when I finally found him quite a way back; smoked him! I notice he has two huge headlights which appear slanted somehow.
I slam on my Porterfield R4-S brakes and haul it down to 55 mph; good thing Z has his seatbelt on. I wait and see if he wants more. After about 4 whole seconds, I see his headlights bob up and he sprints towards me very fast. I’m wondering whether if he’s going to fly right by me, but he slams on the brakes, settles in, and matches speed with me. I double clutch it down to 3rd again. I did not know it at the time, but all the 928’s and bikes did the same too to watch 'Round 2 of the SuperCar/SuperBike Showdown'.
Again I lean over to look at the bike and rider, and this time he’s crouched and has both hands on the bars. He looks over at me and then ahead, I see the bike jump, and it’s on again.
I nail the throttle, and the car is pulling like you can’t even believe. However, this time around, it’s a bit different.
The bike is hanging with me as he’s at my front tire. Then all of a sudden, he’s gone!
What the?!
He dropped back during his upshift! I see him creeping up again and he makes it to the middle of Z’s door, and he disappears again! Finally I see him again and he only makes it to the rear of the door and he’s gone for good as I see him now in the rearview mirror; I glance at the speedo and we’re going 150+.
I slam on the brakes, roll down the window, and repeatedly pump a thumbs-up out the window. I look in the rearview mirror, and the rider proceeds to do a power-wheelie; that boy is downright incredible!
I must be honest and state that I was not expecting that outcome, and neither did the rider as he originally thought he could beat me with 'one arm tied behind his back'.
So now we have an idea of just how fast a MURF 928 SuperShark is; WOW!!!
I’ve got 4 witnesses and a whole pack of bikers who saw the whole thing, but I hope I *NEVER!* do something like that again.
But what a rush!
http://www.yamaha-motor.com/products...cy&cid=5&mid=6
Specs:
http://www.yzf-r1forum.com/specs.html
We were on our way back from Road America late Sunday afternoon licking our wounds as us Wisconsin 928 guys had a rough weekend. 928 #1: Tim Murphy and Jim Page, 928 #2: Hacker Pschorr, 928 #3: myself and Z.
Saturday morning on the way to Road America, the 26 psi Red S4 finally blew a head gasket on cylinder 4. Sunday on the way to Road America, Tim contracted a weeping head gasket at 14psi trying to unsuccessfully pull away from me. During the race, Jean-Louis was driving fabulously and crunched the passenger side in the ‘Kink’ after the car ahead of him went off and on the track dragging debris onto the track; JL ‘slowly’ drifted through the dirt at 110-120 mph finally hitting the wall.
*EDIT*
The car ahead of Jean-Louis blew an engine, and it was an oil slick and off-road debris that he encountered on the track.
We were in the middle of nowhere in rural Wisconsin without another car in sight when we came across a pack of about 10 Harley Davidson’s 2 abreast in the right lane. Tim slowly passes in the left lane and is finally out in front of them as does Hacker Pschorr, when I notice at this point the lead bike on the outside squirts ahead and matches speed with Tim.
I jab Z and say, ‘Crap, that guy wants to race Tim!’ It then becomes apparent the bike isn’t a Harley as it’s blue, full fairing, a huge rear tire, and a single large exhaust sweeping upward on the right side of the bike. I’m thinking to myself, oh man, I hope Tim doesn’t try to race him with his bruised head gasket.
I was clueless as to what was going to happen until I see Hacker Pschorr’s hand come out of the driver’s window waving me forward. I’m thinking, oh man, do I have to race this guy?
Next I see Tim’s hand come out his window waving me forward! I’m thinking, ‘Holy ****, I have to race this guy!’
In the meantime, Tim slows up so he can get behind the bike in the right lane so that I can move to the front in the left lane and stage, but the bike slows down too and matches Tim’s speed as he thinks Tim is getting ready and staging for the start.
As I squeeze by Tim, I double clutch from 5th to 4th, and 4th to 3rd matching my revs to my speed, and am now spinning around 4k RPM, right in the sweet spot. I get in front of Tim, and the bike catches on to what's happening and squirts up to the passenger door; Z has a front row seat!
We settle in at around 60 mph and I lean forward to look at the bike and rider, and the rider is crouched forward with his left hand off the bars and behind his back. I was thinking at the time he was doing that for aerodynamics.
I see the bike jump, I nail the throttle, and we’re off!
Out of my peripheral vision, I can’t see the bike. I keep my eyes on the road and tach, and pull a clean shift at 6.4k RPM. With the shift complete, I look for the bike and it wasn’t until I looked in the rearview mirror when I finally found him quite a way back; smoked him! I notice he has two huge headlights which appear slanted somehow.
I slam on my Porterfield R4-S brakes and haul it down to 55 mph; good thing Z has his seatbelt on. I wait and see if he wants more. After about 4 whole seconds, I see his headlights bob up and he sprints towards me very fast. I’m wondering whether if he’s going to fly right by me, but he slams on the brakes, settles in, and matches speed with me. I double clutch it down to 3rd again. I did not know it at the time, but all the 928’s and bikes did the same too to watch 'Round 2 of the SuperCar/SuperBike Showdown'.
Again I lean over to look at the bike and rider, and this time he’s crouched and has both hands on the bars. He looks over at me and then ahead, I see the bike jump, and it’s on again.
I nail the throttle, and the car is pulling like you can’t even believe. However, this time around, it’s a bit different.
The bike is hanging with me as he’s at my front tire. Then all of a sudden, he’s gone!
What the?!
He dropped back during his upshift! I see him creeping up again and he makes it to the middle of Z’s door, and he disappears again! Finally I see him again and he only makes it to the rear of the door and he’s gone for good as I see him now in the rearview mirror; I glance at the speedo and we’re going 150+.
I slam on the brakes, roll down the window, and repeatedly pump a thumbs-up out the window. I look in the rearview mirror, and the rider proceeds to do a power-wheelie; that boy is downright incredible!
I must be honest and state that I was not expecting that outcome, and neither did the rider as he originally thought he could beat me with 'one arm tied behind his back'.
So now we have an idea of just how fast a MURF 928 SuperShark is; WOW!!!
I’ve got 4 witnesses and a whole pack of bikers who saw the whole thing, but I hope I *NEVER!* do something like that again.
But what a rush!
Before heading for the twisty stuff, as I was on a dual carriageway and I stayed on it to speed test the R1 and get a feel for it at speed. I went around the roundabout in 3rd, to ensure the rear wouldn't spin up and high side me into oncoming traffic as I rolled on the power out of the roundabout. From 3,500rpm, the R1 accelerated blisteringly quickly in a manageable form to about 125mph deceiving all the other motorists who pulled out into its path only to find the YZF-R1 up their backside in a matter of seconds if that with ease! As the traffic moved over, I dropped it down 2-3 gears and pinned the throttle with no intention of backing off. The bars wiggled a bit in a controllable manner as we climbed from about 55mph to 140mph before calming down. As we got to 140mph, I realised how hard I was battling to hold on due to the poor wind protection from the fairing and screen. Sod it, just keep it pinned ..... and I managed 161mph before reluctantly having to slow down as the windblast almost ripped my head off my shoulders and re-arranged my helmet. A few adjustments, down a few gears and the relentless surge towards the limiter and horizon was repeated. This time, I managed to adjust my helmet at about 145mph , moments before I hit 168mph at which point the bike didn't appear to accelerate much more (due to the drag being caused by myself no doubt, which goes back to the minimalist fairing and inadequate screen. There wasn't much more left on the rev counter either at this point) and I aborted the top speed run, mainly due to the volume of traffic followed by the ridiculous amount of windblast. So, of to the twisty section I went feeling rather depressed about the R1's wind protection and overall top end. I hoped that a 175mph should have been easily achievable with the YZF-R1 being a 998cc, 20 valve and 150bhp monster. With the R1 being a relatively new demonstration bike, the engine wasn't as loose as it could have been, and from the words go the engine did feel a little tight..
02-23-2008, 01:56 PM
#319
Instructor
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: New Berlin, WI
Posts: 232
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm in Wisconsin, have an old FZR 1000 5-valve. If I rem. at Elkhart the superbikes turn laps similar to Formula Fords. I have about 900 miles at Blackhawk Farms on stock superbikes. Cars are faster around corners - generalization about the stuff we are interested in here. But.... no way any of these fellow Wisconsinites are going to beat my old 1000 from 0 to 120 - sorry, it won't happen. Any 928 with enough power won't hook up on street tires. From a dead stop it does take some physical skills to launch a bike and moreso at a road course, so this is a variable. On a road course I think my wife could wheel our 951 around seconds faster than I could get the bike around, but in a straight line - you've got to be kidding. Six point eight lbs per hp at 500 hp and 3400lbs, fout point one lbs per hp for my bike.
I have been around Elkhart on a 'rented' GPZ 600 years ago - very scary past Canada corner - I slowed down looking at that bridge abutment.
I have been around Elkhart on a 'rented' GPZ 600 years ago - very scary past Canada corner - I slowed down looking at that bridge abutment.
02-23-2008, 02:09 PM
#321
Instructor
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: New Berlin, WI
Posts: 232
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think Union Grove Drag-A-Way is still in bidness - I've already got one ticket from a bike trip to Elkhart (beat it 'cause the cop didn't show! - he was on vacation!). Union Grove once gave free beer to the riders on an all bike day - this seemed crazy even way back when, can you imagine this now? This track is near Chicagoish - it was a dump 30 years ago and may be worse now.
02-23-2008, 02:12 PM
#322
Administrator - "Tyson"
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
The video above with the 911TT says it best. If that was a rolling start the TT would have spanked the bike. The 928 in this thread has a higher power / weight ratio than the TT in that video.
02-23-2008, 03:20 PM
#323
Rennlist Member
As we got to 140mph, I realised how hard I was battling to hold on due to the poor wind protection from the fairing and screen. Sod it, just keep it pinned ..... and I managed 161mph before reluctantly having to slow down as the windblast almost ripped my head off my shoulders and re-arranged my helmet. A few adjustments, down a few gears and the relentless surge towards the limiter and horizon was repeated. This time, I managed to adjust my helmet at about 145mph , moments before I hit 168mph at which point the bike didn't appear to accelerate much more (due to the drag being caused by myself no doubt, which goes back to the minimalist fairing and inadequate screen.
Lag had an advantage of not having his head being seperated from his body by the wind on this 60-150 roll on "race." Besides power to weight there is also CD to consider at higher speeds. One more thing I've never known Lag to lie.
Lag had an advantage of not having his head being seperated from his body by the wind on this 60-150 roll on "race." Besides power to weight there is also CD to consider at higher speeds. One more thing I've never known Lag to lie.
02-23-2008, 04:23 PM
#324
Er...
No one said anything about lying -I hope-...
Just a small dose out of the Reality Check bottle.
I've been a biker since April of 65' and I gotta tell the truth here.
I was barnstorming early 80's Suzuki 750 and 1100 cc GS series bikes and even before "some work"
they would win the zero to 150mph and any roll on in between against (almost) anything streetable.
Again, let me state, If the rider WANTED to run and was competent/mildly fearless he would have EASILY won. However, the biker was probably scared of his machine and the sHARk wrangler won by a combination of hearty aggressivness, amp'd sHARk, and default.
Specs. for an 04' YZF-R1:
Measured HP at 12,500 rpm - 158 HP
Measured Torque at 10,000 rpm - 78 LB FT
1/4 mile - 10.07 seconds at 145.3 mph
top gear roll-ons 60-80mph - 2.75 seconds
weight wet - 449 LBS
Above session (they flog em' all day) corrected to sea level, weather conditions 59 F, 29.92 inches
of Mercury. Numbers generated by a Dyno-Jet 150 rear wheel dyno, Intercomp SwIIdigital scale and
Los Angeles County Raceway 1/4 mile strip utilizing a Chrondek timing system.
More honesty ... after a 13 year bike hiatus due to bad knees I was forced to by a bike for my son,
Zack. Found a good condiion 750GSXr -gixxer- in Alexandria VA. Flew up and bought it to prevent Zacks purchase of a 162 HP 1000 sans any riding experience, of course.
So now he has a "weak' , carbed 118 hp, 442 lb machine the will lift the front end in 3 or 4th with my 240lb butt onboard at the mere twist of the throttle.
Scary stuff...
Not a challange, not calling folks liars.... but flat out, the fact is, you won't hang with the super bikes anywhere if there is an aggressive rider involved
Those damn things will be out the other side of a corner before you enter so the handling issue
is moot. There are a bunch of club racer sites with onboard video showing the entire run while
viewing the tach/speedo as well.
FWIW the sHARKs involved are still awesome (envy, lust).
BTW were those improved head gaskets in use?
No one said anything about lying -I hope-...
Just a small dose out of the Reality Check bottle.
I've been a biker since April of 65' and I gotta tell the truth here.
I was barnstorming early 80's Suzuki 750 and 1100 cc GS series bikes and even before "some work"
they would win the zero to 150mph and any roll on in between against (almost) anything streetable.
Again, let me state, If the rider WANTED to run and was competent/mildly fearless he would have EASILY won. However, the biker was probably scared of his machine and the sHARk wrangler won by a combination of hearty aggressivness, amp'd sHARk, and default.
Specs. for an 04' YZF-R1:
Measured HP at 12,500 rpm - 158 HP
Measured Torque at 10,000 rpm - 78 LB FT
1/4 mile - 10.07 seconds at 145.3 mph
top gear roll-ons 60-80mph - 2.75 seconds
weight wet - 449 LBS
Above session (they flog em' all day) corrected to sea level, weather conditions 59 F, 29.92 inches
of Mercury. Numbers generated by a Dyno-Jet 150 rear wheel dyno, Intercomp SwIIdigital scale and
Los Angeles County Raceway 1/4 mile strip utilizing a Chrondek timing system.
More honesty ... after a 13 year bike hiatus due to bad knees I was forced to by a bike for my son,
Zack. Found a good condiion 750GSXr -gixxer- in Alexandria VA. Flew up and bought it to prevent Zacks purchase of a 162 HP 1000 sans any riding experience, of course.
So now he has a "weak' , carbed 118 hp, 442 lb machine the will lift the front end in 3 or 4th with my 240lb butt onboard at the mere twist of the throttle.
Scary stuff...
Not a challange, not calling folks liars.... but flat out, the fact is, you won't hang with the super bikes anywhere if there is an aggressive rider involved
Those damn things will be out the other side of a corner before you enter so the handling issue
is moot. There are a bunch of club racer sites with onboard video showing the entire run while
viewing the tach/speedo as well.
FWIW the sHARKs involved are still awesome (envy, lust).
BTW were those improved head gaskets in use?
02-23-2008, 05:39 PM
#325
Drifting
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 3,348
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXTeGMFf4Ko
In this test, it looks like they have both an aggressive driver, and aggressive rider.
And it looks pretty damn close. So I'd tend to agree that in a race between an R1,
and a boosted 928, that rider and driver skill are the major factor.
Another one, on the freeway:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tX3T-pnOqBk
And another:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJLFFimMkhQ
In this test, it looks like they have both an aggressive driver, and aggressive rider.
And it looks pretty damn close. So I'd tend to agree that in a race between an R1,
and a boosted 928, that rider and driver skill are the major factor.
Another one, on the freeway:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tX3T-pnOqBk
And another:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJLFFimMkhQ
02-23-2008, 07:09 PM
#326
Instructor
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: New Berlin, WI
Posts: 232
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Absolutely true about high speed roll-ons. From 80 up, rolling start I'm not making any bets. The comment about guts is so very right on. Even 130 on a TRACK on a bike is a little pucker if you're over 50 years old, 130 on the street - not me. Well, often went close to that "somewhere in Wisconsin", but 'fear of deer' can mute even bike induced lunacy. There are no roads between Chicago and Elkhart that I'd even consider going fast on. To wring out a big bike you need to want to do it. At over 10 000rpm with a light front end, the noise, the helmet moving around 'cause it's too old, - you need commitment. At 110 our 951 is nearly whisper quiet; my FZR at that speed requires you pay attention.
02-23-2008, 08:56 PM
#327
Rennlist Member
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,051
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
02-23-2008, 09:40 PM
#328
Always have a Plan B...:<)
Reference: "almost anything streetable".
Running a true Dragon Slayer ( the outrageous Murph-mobiles ) on the street require strategically located drip cups and sponges to catch all the nervous sweat, and eyeball retainers while we are
at it. In the end that particular race was Won by the sHARk, but the bike had much more to give ...
To make matters worse they stamp them out by the 100,000 units per year while there is a finite (small) number of super-sHARKs.
Peace and grease
For myself, I'll stick to reeling in stang' and Camaro squids ... it's so easy.
Reference: "almost anything streetable".
Running a true Dragon Slayer ( the outrageous Murph-mobiles ) on the street require strategically located drip cups and sponges to catch all the nervous sweat, and eyeball retainers while we are
at it. In the end that particular race was Won by the sHARk, but the bike had much more to give ...
To make matters worse they stamp them out by the 100,000 units per year while there is a finite (small) number of super-sHARKs.
Peace and grease
For myself, I'll stick to reeling in stang' and Camaro squids ... it's so easy.
02-24-2008, 03:34 AM
#329
Pro
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Boston
Posts: 747
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
03 R1 (like the one in the quoted example above) was considerably slower than an 04+, with less wind protection and no ram-air (not that it was a slow bike by any means). Also the rider in that review was an idiot. There are other bikes with much better wind protection and aerodynamics than the older R1's. My old TL1000R was rock stable at ludicrous speed. My R6 (which has aerodynamics more like the old R1) is skittish by comparison when it gets going real fast.
Bikes have also gotten faster in the past 5 years since then. Check out the stats on a new ZX10R or the new Hayabusa, unbelievable speed and quickness.
Bikes have also gotten faster in the past 5 years since then. Check out the stats on a new ZX10R or the new Hayabusa, unbelievable speed and quickness.
09-07-2023, 10:28 AM
#330
Administrator - "Tyson"
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
We haven't re-visited this thread in a while.