Wanted GTS Crankshaft & Pistons
02-18-2015, 11:01 AM
#32
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To FredR ,
I took the car to Kuwait for someone he really knows about 928.Actually he dismantled the engine and he discovered that we need for crankshaft and pistons.As he said the block is okay and he did inspection and he said it is okay.
So i hope things will be okay after the the overhaul
I took the car to Kuwait for someone he really knows about 928.Actually he dismantled the engine and he discovered that we need for crankshaft and pistons.As he said the block is okay and he did inspection and he said it is okay.
So i hope things will be okay after the the overhaul
02-18-2015, 02:09 PM
#34
Pro
I would be careful, there's only one guy that really knows 928s in the Middle East and that is Terry in Dubai.
It doesn't make sense that you would need only new pistons and a crankshaft. Could you get some pictures of what the mechanic thinks the problems are?
Also you cannot re-bore(hone) the 928 engine block, I've seen many engines destroyed out there because of this, it's common for them to try and re-hone the cylinders in the GCC.
Who is the mechanic in Kuwait?
By the way, I have a spare '90 S4 motor in Dubai. It is a direct fit into the GTS and will be the cheapest way of fixing this problem. The head gaskets were replaced less than 2000km before the motor was pulled.
It doesn't make sense that you would need only new pistons and a crankshaft. Could you get some pictures of what the mechanic thinks the problems are?
Also you cannot re-bore(hone) the 928 engine block, I've seen many engines destroyed out there because of this, it's common for them to try and re-hone the cylinders in the GCC.
Who is the mechanic in Kuwait?
By the way, I have a spare '90 S4 motor in Dubai. It is a direct fit into the GTS and will be the cheapest way of fixing this problem. The head gaskets were replaced less than 2000km before the motor was pulled.
02-18-2015, 02:35 PM
#35
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To FredR ,
I took the car to Kuwait for someone he really knows about 928.Actually he dismantled the engine and he discovered that we need for crankshaft and pistons.As he said the block is okay and he did inspection and he said it is okay.
So I hope things will be okay after the the overhaul
I took the car to Kuwait for someone he really knows about 928.Actually he dismantled the engine and he discovered that we need for crankshaft and pistons.As he said the block is okay and he did inspection and he said it is okay.
So I hope things will be okay after the the overhaul
You mentioned thrust bearing failure and this can definitely destroy the crank but not the rods and pistons unless things got really catastrophic. The crank in my original GTS motor was shot but the rods and pistons appeared quite serviceable as did the bores [superficially at least]. The crankcase was history with cracks around the thrust bearing seats.
Fitting new crank/rod bearings is not as straight forward as it may seem if the need for correct clearances is as critical as it seems to be after reading what our expert builders have to do.
If you want to convert the motor from S4 to GTS spec then obviously the S4 rods and pistons are no use even if they are perfect.
Just make sure you are not going down a one way street with more grief looming..
Best wishes
Fred
02-18-2015, 02:47 PM
#36
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The alarm has already been sounded. Some pretty well informed people/people with a huge amount of experience have told the OP the pitfalls. The OP thinks everything is under control.
I once got a GTS engine shipped to me from Hong Kong. It had been rebuilt 3 times there....and "shook" so badly the owner couldn't drive the car. I took it apart and found the exact problem, in the block, that we are talking about here. Unfixable.
Repeating the same mantra over and over again is futile.
Let the OP move forward and get his engine back together. We can just hope that it all turns out fine.
I once got a GTS engine shipped to me from Hong Kong. It had been rebuilt 3 times there....and "shook" so badly the owner couldn't drive the car. I took it apart and found the exact problem, in the block, that we are talking about here. Unfixable.
Repeating the same mantra over and over again is futile.
Let the OP move forward and get his engine back together. We can just hope that it all turns out fine.
__________________
greg brown
714 879 9072
GregBBRD@aol.com
Semi-retired, as of Feb 1, 2023.
The days of free technical advice are over.
Free consultations will no longer be available.
Will still be in the shop, isolated and exclusively working on project cars, developmental work and products, engines and transmissions.
Have fun with your 928's people!
greg brown
714 879 9072
GregBBRD@aol.com
Semi-retired, as of Feb 1, 2023.
The days of free technical advice are over.
Free consultations will no longer be available.
Will still be in the shop, isolated and exclusively working on project cars, developmental work and products, engines and transmissions.
Have fun with your 928's people!
02-18-2015, 06:44 PM
#37
Nordschleife Master
I'm surprised there's no mention of tolerance groups for the block/pistons.
Sheikh, you previously had Terry's phone no via PM - you should use it and at least discuss the problem with him.
Sheikh, you previously had Terry's phone no via PM - you should use it and at least discuss the problem with him.
02-18-2015, 08:22 PM
#38
Pro
You will end up with a car that is worth less than the bill you paid for them to break it further.
In fact there is a strange de-ja vu here, the '93 grand prix white that was for sale just last year in Dubai ($10K) with thrust bearing failure had a similiar story.
The guy went to Terry, Terry said there's nothing we can do with the TBF engine, you'll have to find a replacement. The guy ended up spending more money at a backstreet garage trying to fix the TBF than it would have cost him to buy a genuine GTS replacement motor and then after he sunk all his money into it, he sold it at a massive loss and more broken. It's a sad story, but happens all too often it seems, and I can guarantee shaikhzeep is on the same road.
/Rant over
02-19-2015, 02:23 PM
#39
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We seem to have a plethora of master mechanics over here in the Middle East who mysteriously operate out of back street garages [I wonder if Greg has a back street garage operating on the cheap- ha ha]. Strangely enough they often emanate from Lebanon for some mysterious reason.
The previous owner of my GTS [when it still had a GTS motor] had a problem with a blown gasket on the cylinder head- turned out there was some corrosion on the mating flange face that could have easily been milled out and recovered. The "master mechanic" knew squat about how to recover the heads or about thicker gaskets to compensate and advised the owner to purchase a pair of the weaker 87 heads that he had available that had no cam bearing caps to match the head numbers. No problem- he had a bucket full of cam caps and used his "masterful skills" to juggle a mix of caps that "sort of worked". To be fair he got the motor running [like a dog]. After a bill for the heads and work of some $12k, the car weas returned to the owner and then it packed up. This time he took it to the local agents and they found the crank was seized. After some brutality they managed to free up the crank, found the flex plate mangled and told him it was a waste of time. At his insistance they replaced the flex plate, the motor would run but more doggy than ever and he had another bill for the effort. In sum total he owned the car just over a year, I doubt he drove it more than 1k km, he paid $20k for the car, had two repair bills for about 15k and in the end gave up. He wanted to sell the car for $10k, I told him the motor was terminal when I inspected it at the main dealers and checked the crank end float, that he was the proud owner of a garden ornament and that it would cost more than he was asking to get a used 928 motor. I made him a reasonable offer all things considered, he advised me he would think about it- I advised him to take as much time as he wanted and that for every day he thought about it the offer would reduce at the rate of $1k per day- done deal there and then. The TBF'd motor had value to me because my S4 motor had damage to its peripherals [cam gear, cam housing etc] plus alternator, a/c compressor, brackets etc.
This kind of scenario is all too common. Even buying a used motor is a crap shoot unless you know the provenance/trust the source- hopefully not a fly by night "master mechanic".
The 928 is a great car when it is running like Porsche intended it to but a night mare that swalllows money when it is not.
Regards
Fred
The previous owner of my GTS [when it still had a GTS motor] had a problem with a blown gasket on the cylinder head- turned out there was some corrosion on the mating flange face that could have easily been milled out and recovered. The "master mechanic" knew squat about how to recover the heads or about thicker gaskets to compensate and advised the owner to purchase a pair of the weaker 87 heads that he had available that had no cam bearing caps to match the head numbers. No problem- he had a bucket full of cam caps and used his "masterful skills" to juggle a mix of caps that "sort of worked". To be fair he got the motor running [like a dog]. After a bill for the heads and work of some $12k, the car weas returned to the owner and then it packed up. This time he took it to the local agents and they found the crank was seized. After some brutality they managed to free up the crank, found the flex plate mangled and told him it was a waste of time. At his insistance they replaced the flex plate, the motor would run but more doggy than ever and he had another bill for the effort. In sum total he owned the car just over a year, I doubt he drove it more than 1k km, he paid $20k for the car, had two repair bills for about 15k and in the end gave up. He wanted to sell the car for $10k, I told him the motor was terminal when I inspected it at the main dealers and checked the crank end float, that he was the proud owner of a garden ornament and that it would cost more than he was asking to get a used 928 motor. I made him a reasonable offer all things considered, he advised me he would think about it- I advised him to take as much time as he wanted and that for every day he thought about it the offer would reduce at the rate of $1k per day- done deal there and then. The TBF'd motor had value to me because my S4 motor had damage to its peripherals [cam gear, cam housing etc] plus alternator, a/c compressor, brackets etc.
This kind of scenario is all too common. Even buying a used motor is a crap shoot unless you know the provenance/trust the source- hopefully not a fly by night "master mechanic".
The 928 is a great car when it is running like Porsche intended it to but a night mare that swalllows money when it is not.
Regards
Fred
02-19-2015, 09:56 PM
#40
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We seem to have a plethora of master mechanics over here in the Middle East who mysteriously operate out of back street garages [I wonder if Greg has a back street garage operating on the cheap- ha ha]. Strangely enough they often emanate from Lebanon for some mysterious reason.
The previous owner of my GTS [when it still had a GTS motor] had a problem with a blown gasket on the cylinder head- turned out there was some corrosion on the mating flange face that could have easily been milled out and recovered. The "master mechanic" knew squat about how to recover the heads or about thicker gaskets to compensate and advised the owner to purchase a pair of the weaker 87 heads that he had available that had no cam bearing caps to match the head numbers. No problem- he had a bucket full of cam caps and used his "masterful skills" to juggle a mix of caps that "sort of worked". To be fair he got the motor running [like a dog]. After a bill for the heads and work of some $12k, the car weas returned to the owner and then it packed up. This time he took it to the local agents and they found the crank was seized. After some brutality they managed to free up the crank, found the flex plate mangled and told him it was a waste of time. At his insistance they replaced the flex plate, the motor would run but more doggy than ever and he had another bill for the effort. In sum total he owned the car just over a year, I doubt he drove it more than 1k km, he paid $20k for the car, had two repair bills for about 15k and in the end gave up. He wanted to sell the car for $10k, I told him the motor was terminal when I inspected it at the main dealers and checked the crank end float, that he was the proud owner of a garden ornament and that it would cost more than he was asking to get a used 928 motor. I made him a reasonable offer all things considered, he advised me he would think about it- I advised him to take as much time as he wanted and that for every day he thought about it the offer would reduce at the rate of $1k per day- done deal there and then. The TBF'd motor had value to me because my S4 motor had damage to its peripherals [cam gear, cam housing etc] plus alternator, a/c compressor, brackets etc.
This kind of scenario is all too common. Even buying a used motor is a crap shoot unless you know the provenance/trust the source- hopefully not a fly by night "master mechanic".
The 928 is a great car when it is running like Porsche intended it to but a night mare that swalllows money when it is not.
Regards
Fred
The previous owner of my GTS [when it still had a GTS motor] had a problem with a blown gasket on the cylinder head- turned out there was some corrosion on the mating flange face that could have easily been milled out and recovered. The "master mechanic" knew squat about how to recover the heads or about thicker gaskets to compensate and advised the owner to purchase a pair of the weaker 87 heads that he had available that had no cam bearing caps to match the head numbers. No problem- he had a bucket full of cam caps and used his "masterful skills" to juggle a mix of caps that "sort of worked". To be fair he got the motor running [like a dog]. After a bill for the heads and work of some $12k, the car weas returned to the owner and then it packed up. This time he took it to the local agents and they found the crank was seized. After some brutality they managed to free up the crank, found the flex plate mangled and told him it was a waste of time. At his insistance they replaced the flex plate, the motor would run but more doggy than ever and he had another bill for the effort. In sum total he owned the car just over a year, I doubt he drove it more than 1k km, he paid $20k for the car, had two repair bills for about 15k and in the end gave up. He wanted to sell the car for $10k, I told him the motor was terminal when I inspected it at the main dealers and checked the crank end float, that he was the proud owner of a garden ornament and that it would cost more than he was asking to get a used 928 motor. I made him a reasonable offer all things considered, he advised me he would think about it- I advised him to take as much time as he wanted and that for every day he thought about it the offer would reduce at the rate of $1k per day- done deal there and then. The TBF'd motor had value to me because my S4 motor had damage to its peripherals [cam gear, cam housing etc] plus alternator, a/c compressor, brackets etc.
This kind of scenario is all too common. Even buying a used motor is a crap shoot unless you know the provenance/trust the source- hopefully not a fly by night "master mechanic".
The 928 is a great car when it is running like Porsche intended it to but a night mare that swalllows money when it is not.
Regards
Fred
In today's world, it's not very expensive or difficult to throw something in a box and ship it to California to be repaired properly.....I do this on a daily basis. Yesterday, a transmission from the East Coast went together (second rebuild after a very recent "rebuild".) Today, an engine from Mexico came apart.
02-20-2015, 11:45 AM
#41
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Good day All,
I read you all and what you are writing make big sense.But this shop is well know in Kuwait.The shop name is Car Tech.And the guys over there works on porsche 928.Now for me , atleast those guys knows about what they are doing.In my area or city no body knows about porsche 928 .Especially 928 s4 or GTS.
Hilton, regarding Terry, i talked to him by phone regarding the red porche 928 S4 1989.Not the other porsche i have 928 GTS 1993. Terry was so busy at that time and we decided to bring the car to him to Dubai but i could not find time due to the distance.
Back to the GTS, well they will give me warranty in thier jobs and hope things will go okay.
I read you all and what you are writing make big sense.But this shop is well know in Kuwait.The shop name is Car Tech.And the guys over there works on porsche 928.Now for me , atleast those guys knows about what they are doing.In my area or city no body knows about porsche 928 .Especially 928 s4 or GTS.
Hilton, regarding Terry, i talked to him by phone regarding the red porche 928 S4 1989.Not the other porsche i have 928 GTS 1993. Terry was so busy at that time and we decided to bring the car to him to Dubai but i could not find time due to the distance.
Back to the GTS, well they will give me warranty in thier jobs and hope things will go okay.
02-20-2015, 11:54 AM
#42
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I agree totally with GregBBRD comments.
For me even i bought used GTS engine i will know what is the condition of the engine internally.
I been directed to this shop in Kuwait Car Teck and i saw there facilty or shop .I trust them and i hope things with engine repairs goes right.
I really do not have other options at this time.
For me even i bought used GTS engine i will know what is the condition of the engine internally.
I been directed to this shop in Kuwait Car Teck and i saw there facilty or shop .I trust them and i hope things with engine repairs goes right.
I really do not have other options at this time.
02-20-2015, 12:07 PM
#43
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GTS Engine Block
Regarding those who ask for the engine block internally.Here is some pictures.There are wrapping between the crankshaft and the engine block.As the mechanic told me that they will send the block to machine shop to do repairs on block.What kind of repair do not know.
02-20-2015, 12:22 PM
#44
Pro
How much are they charging you for this job?
Make sure you have an agreement with them that if it doesn't get fixed you don't pay.