Daniel5691

I am trying to get a very general idea of what it usually costs to have
an experienced 928 shop rebuild heads, block, and manual transmission for
a 16v 928.

I am just trying to do some budget planning at this point...

For instance, my manual transmission has what seems to be a couple of synchros that are nonfunctional, and my engine is OK for now, running,

Just trying to educate myself on costs of a typical professional rebuild.
Typical. LOL.

Thanks
Dan

GregBBRD

Pretty tough to do an early transmission for less than 3K these days....and that is removed and sitting on the bench. That allows $1200 in labor and the rest in parts.

Add $500 if it has a limited slip.

Engine costs are frankly all about what needs to be replaced and how bad the "coolant damage" is.

$7500-$10,000 is probably "typical".

Again, that's out and on the bench.

SMTCapeCod

I expect there is some regional variation..we had an enthusiast (v. shop) in New England that was doing the old trans for around $850 on the bench, IIRC.

The real variation is going to be expectations- rebuilt to serviceable or rebuild to as-new. In the latter case NLA parts is an emerging concern.

Overall though, honing in on an average is a problem because so few places do enough of them to actual identify a trend...A lot of failures are addressed in homeowner's garage, or through sourcing serviceable core to R&R rather than rebuild...

Gregg/Precision is certainly one place that can speak to 'typcial results' with authority, and from past comments we know his work trends toward the as-new (or better) end of the spectrum.

GlenL

Here's some quick math:

For an engine rebuild the parts will retail for $1500 to $2000, or more, depending on what is replaced. Add in 40 hours to pull, rebuild and replace the engine at $100/hr. You're quickly at $6000 to have someone rebuild the engine. YMMV, but that's the ballpark.

Trannies are more affordable. $500 to $750 in labor plus parts of $100 and up. AND UP! Some things are No Longer Available, as noted.

This is where we all look at our $5000 beauties and wonder if we're sane. The best parts of life are illogical...at least I think so.

GregBBRD

The vast majority of these early transmissions get taken apart by someone that has no idea what they are looking at, have a couple of syncros and various other pieces thrown at them, and get put back together....still grinding. The problem is more complex than that. Very few people know what they are looking at or know what they need to replace, in order to properly fix them.

Here's the parts list that you will absolutely need, for a transmission that is grinding in 1st and 2nd, before opening up the transmission (along with retail prices):

Gasket set $222
Reverse lockout spring $12
Layshaft needle bearings $20 ea.
1st gear syncro $132
1st gear brake band $69
1st gear stop $14
2nd gear shift sleeve $395
1st gear shift sleeve (*) $261
2nd gear syncro $105
2nd gear brake band $56
2nd gear stop $12

(*) Depending on what year the transmission is, it may have a "double" engaging tooth 1st gear shift sleeve, which can be flipped over and can use the set of teeth that have never touched anything. You may not need this piece.

Note that this parts list assumes that there is not damage to the engaging teeth on 1st and 2nd gear (a bad assumption since they have been grinding.) Most likely new engaging teeth will need to be installed, minimum.

If the input shaft bearing (5th gear) is bad (very common on early transmissions, as this bearing was undersized and subject to wear), that bearing is now $673.

Plus syncros for 3rd-5th may also be worn and have engaging teeth damage (very common).

Like I said, very tough to keep one of these things under 3K these days and have something that will last more than a couple of thousand miles. I get these things shipped to me from all over the country....sometimes from some poor guy that paid someone else to "rebuild it"....which never worked.

They are expensive to do correctly, but if you have to add up two rebuilds to get one that works properly....they are really expensive. I've taken apart more than just a few of these transmissions that have been "rebuilt" two or three times, before I get them....imagine what that total bill looks like!

Do it once, do it right. Be done with it!

Ladybug83

I had my heads redone at a local place recommended by both Greg B and Mark A. Cost me about 850$. Could've been a little less or more depending on condition. Mine had to be welded a bit because they had some coolant damage, but from what he said, he's seen much worse. Also they had to weld up a crack on the right side head because some PO or mechanic had over tightened the plug in front. To be safe, I'd budget 1,000$ for the heads.

Daniel5691

Several responses mentioned parts that are no longer available.
Does this generally refer to parts NLA from Porsche, or NLA as in
these just don't exist "new" anywhere, anymore?
Thanks, just trying to learn.....
Dan

outbackgeorgia

Daniel,
What you are asking is wise. To have an idea of the cost going into a vehicle like the 928 is a great plan.
I would ask, is ther some particular reason that you are asking? Most 928's that are driven, not put away, should go at least 250,000 miles without a rebuild. There may be head work or accessory rebuilds, and many other things that need attention, but the 928 block and crank are really almost bullet proof if maintained correctly.
I am sure there are different opinions, but the design is sound, and using good oil, changing coolant and driving frequently should provide a long lasting experience.
Just my opinion.
Dave

GregBBRD

^^^^100% true, about the engine.

Syncros will "start" to complain at about 80,000 miles, on the early cars. They really get worn quickly if the clutch doesn't completely release...a very common problem on the dual disc clutch vehicles (like the OP's).

GregBBRD

Interestingly enough, most of the transmission parts for your vehicle are still currently available. The roller bearings for the layshaft are NLA, but I've sourced them from another source.

Engine pieces still pretty easy to get. You should have no issues.

Jetdriver69

Pull the gear box, crate it up and ship it to Greg Brown. It will last for another 100,000 miles.

If you have any experience with engines at all, you can pull and rebuild the 16V. Luckily your 4.7 has much cheaper and more available piston rings than a 4.5

Find a reputable speed shop, preferably one that has some experience with Porsche engines and have the heads refurbed. Hopefully all you will need done is some cleanup work and valve guides, but valves and springs aren't too expensive.

I would have the block boiled out and the bores re Alusiled if necessary. The full gasket set isn't too expensive and ALWAYS change the WP/TB if you rebuild no matter how new or unused. Don't ask me how I know this one.

Then there is the fuel lines, PS lines, all the vacuum lines, fuel injector refurb or replacement. WitchHunter worked great for me! Oil pan stud kit and silicon gasket.

Maybe a rebuilt steering rack while you have it out. Is your TT or clutch acting up? Perfect time to deal with those issues.

Is your engine wiring harness less than perfect, well now is your time to fix that.

As you can see, a gear box/engine rebuild budget needs to expand to include stuff that will have to be addressed or you will redouble your labor some time in the very near future.

If you want a perfectly sorted out OB, I will probably sell my son"s 82 5 speed in a few months. He is going into the military and this car is not practical for that kind of use.

New engine, new Greg Brown gear box, new TT, clutch, 90K miles, every system has been touched and everything works. It won't be cheap, but it is about as done as it is going to get.

If I can't get a decent price for her, then I will drive it until the wheels fall off.

Daniel5691

Jetdriver
PM sent
Thanks
Dan

danglerb

What gets lost in the PM costs is that there are high is 75% of reason 928 sell for so little money. If our cars were cheap and easy to maintain they would sell for twice as much or more.

SteveG

Cheap to buy, expensive to maintain. Only the strong survive. 500 mg tylenol is the baseline now.

danglerb

For S&G it might be fun to know what a dealer charges for a rebuilt transmission or motor.