It turns out it's a whole lot easier to use the "4 teeth" method at 45 degrees than the "spot on" method at 0. The cams relax very near 4 teeth with the crank at 45. I don't know why, but it's true. I spend a couple of hours last time getting the cams lined up at 0, using the 4 tooth method at 45 took about 10 minutes. It really is superior (if it works). I quit at about 10pm last night and hadn't gotten to rotating the crank to 0 yet. I'll know for certain in a few more hours, right now it's breakfast

 

Practice does make perfect. I always notice that if there is a long time between timing belt jobs, it seem like it takes forever to get everything spot on. Go through several timing belt jobs in a row, and I can get everything lined up and back together just perfect in just a few minutes. Seems like the timing belt even slides on quicker.

 

that's why I use the large vice grip on the driver side cam hex to keep it tensioned. makes it a snap to keep tension down to the oil pump and crank and then the rest just slips right together. with out it, its just cumbersome to have a open end wrench, that can fall off etc.

 

This is the fourth time I've opened it up this year trying to get the sensor to stop yammering so I'm getting more practice than I'd like. The first time I ever did the timing belt was two years ago, and it literally took me 6 months (OK, I did a few other things along the way and I wasn't as dedicated as I could have been, but it was still 6 months). So far (and I've timed it) I've been at this for 8 hours and I've completely torn it down and closed it back up again twice only to find I hadn't fixed the sensor problem.

I did, however, learn how to test the sensor without putting the whole thing back together and turning the key, and I can now take the car apart and put it back together without looking at the manual. I have no idea how useful this skill will be in the future...

 

I don't get how this works? I use a vice grip (set very lightly using the screw) to hold the belt on the cam, but not to hold the cam in position. What do you hook it up to to keep the cam from spinning under spring pressure?

 

If you are going to do this type of work yourself you would find it most helpful if you have Porken's 32VR timing kit and his bump stick. Fitting the belt and timing the cams [if needed] is dead easy. I witness checked the tming of my cams using clocks and when recevied the 32VR kit I checked the timing to ensure the correct marks on the kit lined up which they did. Re-timing the cams is then little more than a 10 minute job when all the obstacles are out of the way.

Before removing anything set the motor to 45 btdc on No 1 cylinder and mark the cam wheel with white paint to index where the teeth are relative to the notch on the cam cover. The bump stick fits over the hex and makes it very easy to tension the driver side cam in the manner Mark says - I found the belt slipped on no hassle whatsoever.

Rgds

Fred

 

Since this sorry saga took place over two days, I had lost track of what actually happened myself, so I thought I'd re-read it from start to finish to find out where I'd become confused. Turned out to be easy.

Before beginning to take the TB covers off for the second time in a week I set the crankshaft on the car to 0 TDC. The reason I did this is the Kempf tool instructions say to set the crank to zero before checking belt tension. During the first cycle of teardown/rebuild the day before I'd forgotten to test the belt tension before closing and had kicked myself. Promising not to make the same mistake again I set the crank at 0 before starting the second round.

When the belt slipped after I removed the idler/tension assembly I was irritated. Shocked, dismayed and irritated might be a better description, however I quickly convinced myself this wasn't a problem; I knew the crank location therefore returning the cams to the correct setting should be easy. A PITA, but still easy; a "recoverable" error in judgement.

Since the driver's side cam hadn't come unglued I focused on the passenger cam, which had. My first mistake (which is documented very clearly in post #1 on this thread) was confusing the 0 TDC cam marks with the 45 TDC cam marks. Remember, the crank was at 0, yet I talked about using "0 TDC cam marks" I'd placed "years ago" to locate the cam. The 0 cam marks were placed by the factory and are cast/machined into the parts. I placed 45 cam marks (using a black laundry marker) years ago. In error, I aligned the passenger cam to 45 while the crank was at 0. To make maters worse, I didn't check the driver's side because the belt was still on the driver's side. I forgot the driver's side can move once the belt comes loose.

So after incorrectly re-assembling the whole thing and turning it twice to end up at 45 (not 0, 45) I discovered the cams were out of time. We should all now understand why, I certainly do. I have no idea what they would have looked like at 0, but the funny thing is the driver's cam was spot on with the crank set at 45 (should of course have been set at 0). So I, thinking swiftly, decided something was wrong with the passenger side, not even recognizing that there was something horribly wrong with both sides; I expected to see alignment on the driver's side and I did (but at the wrong crank angle). I hoped, but hadn't expected, to see alignment on the passenger side, but I wasn't terribly disappointed when that didn't happen, instead I just blithely prepared to shoot myself in the foot. As luck would have it, I was at the end of my day and ventured to pose a question on the subject to this list. Had I not done that, I would probably be looking at a smouldering heap of junk sitting on top of my lift as we speak.

I think this is a classic example of how expectations and misconceptions can skew our perception of the world around us in strange, interesting and sometimes extremely dangerous ways. The long and short of it is disaster was averted, and in my humble opinion, that's a very good thing.

END REPORT.

 

Fred, I've been putting off buying Ken's kit for over two years now. Why? Because I'll never have to do this job again in my lifetime

The order goes out this week...

 

And don't we all? I'm working on an '89 944S2 that's in serious need of blowing.

 

Scott, I would have loaned ya my kit if you had put out a request. I'm 72, and I know I'll prolly have to do my 89 a couple of more times, before I pass it on.

Age is only a number.

 

Maybe we could work a deal? I could ship you my ex-wife, you could loan me the bump stick?

If I like the bump stick better, would you consider keeping my ex-wife?

I'd just like to find a good home for her...

Oh! She likes riding in 928s. She just isn't all that fond of paying for the experience. In all honesty, I used to have the same feelings about the Space Shuttle.

Regards,

 

not to hold the belt, but to keep the tension. the vice grip, clamps onto the large hex bolt, not the 17mm nut. you route the belt and put it on the pulley and use the vice grip to keep tension once you have the mark set..... you can put a bungie cord on the vice grip to keep tension, or have someone hold it while you route it to the other cam and that cam pulley should be fixed at the right position, so the belt will just slip right on... tighten tensioner and you are done.

 

as good as that tool is, its not something you will probably need to do if you haven't loosened the cam nuts that keep the cam timing. the timing belt setting is something that is pretty straight forwared and doesn't need the tool. just follow what I laid out and it will take only a few mins and will allow you to use the TDC mark or the 45 degree marks (and those on the cam pulleys). then, rotate the engine to 0 TDC and see if everything looks like it lines up.

 

For some reason thats too difficult for many people. Thats why there are so many long threads where 45 degree method etc are talked about endlessly.

 

I'm pretty sure that's the essential, "by the book" method and it makes sense after someone else describes it, but it isn't laid out that way in the manual and unless you've become confident with the theory of operation (I know, it isn't that complicated), some folks need re-assurance. I'm one of them

Sorry this subject keeps coming up, but I do appreciate the continued support from the 928 community; it's a pretty scary situation to get into the first time it happens. Now, I suppose, I'm a veteran and will walk through the valley of the shadow of death without fear in the future...

And I'll keep my eyes open for fellow travelers, next time perhaps I can be of assistance by passing on what I've learned.