FRUNKenstein

Now that the Royals have finished their unanticipated post-season run, I can focus on changing the TB/WP with the parts that have been sitting on my workbench for the past month. Yesterday, I started the job and got halfway through Chapter 6 - I've just removed both the driver & passenger side cam covers and am ready to rotate the engine to 45 degrees TDC. I have a couple of quick questions:
1. OMG, the 27 years of caked-on grime and oil and grease is disgusting. Looking at Dwayne's sparkling clean, powder-coated-everything parts is giving me a serious complex. I spent an hour with the car on my lift trying my best to clean the underside. Plus, I'm trying to clean parts as I pull them off the car. But, the degreaser I'm using is having very little effect - seems to just be making the grime angrier (like shooting a grizzly bear with a .22 caliber rifle). Any tips for dealing with the filth? Is it best to wait for the serious cleaning until after it is all back together? I'm concerned about getting degreaser on the new belts, though.
2. I've found a couple of mistakes in Dwayne's instructions (and thank God for his efforts, BTW). They are minor, but one set me back about 20 minutes because it just didn't make sense, and now today sneaking a peek ahead to the reassembly process, I see that indeed how I thought it should be done is how he meant to say it. (He says to loosen AND REMOVE the Air Pump/Air Conditioner tension bracket bolt and really it should just be to loosen it). Has anyone noticed any others that I will run into after Chapter 6?

davek9

If really dirty, then put some paper down, block off the dip stick to oil pan hole and start hosing it down w/ brake cleaner (three to four cans).

I usually start doing this after the all three belt covers are removed, as you want to get it all cleaned up before you put it back together, it makes assembly go much easer and you really do not want to use a cleaner on any new parts/gaskets your putting on.

A plastic scraper helps as does compressed Air, don't forget your eye protection

Dave K.

PorscheDoc

+1 on dave's comments. Just make sure you have a fan blowing out the garage door or your entire house will smell like brake clean. Stuff permeates through the door cracks and your wife will hate you

FRUNKenstein

Too late! And it had nothing to do with brake cleaner!

linderpat

my view is that it is critical to clean first, before disasmebly. Brake clean works great, as does Simple green. It is very messy but must be done, or you risk getting the grime into the engine via the various open places. I am very **** about it though, so others might disagree. YMMV.

Jim Devine

Brake cleaner is mainly acetone & evaporates before it can do much. Try mineral spirits (paint thinner) & a scrub brush it works well .

One of these from Home Depot works to catch the junk- they are 2' x 3' & about 8" deep.

http://www.google.com/shopping/produ...FYVlfgodEQ4Arg

syoo8

Great to see that you are doing the TB/WP yourself!!! And I'm sorry I'm traveling right now, other wise I'd come over and help.

I think cleaning is 60-70% of the job, depending on how dirty it is down there. I used P21S Auto Wash in a spray bottle with a stiff brush, and then "rinsed" with a bottle of distilled water, also in a spray bottle. That gets out most of the junk. Then, you use Brakleen sparingly, for the places you can't reach with the brush.

Good luck and let me know how everything is going!

worf928

When you've worked on a spotlessly clean 928 its really irksome to work on one covered in 30-years of leaks. And it takes twice as long.

The above is what I have always posted in answer to the cleaning question.

P21S Total Auto Wash is a citrus-based cleaner. Dilute it 50/50 with water. Spray it on. Let it sit for a bit and then paper-towel wipe and/or agitate with a brush then wipe off. It still takes a while to do; I've not found good substitutes for elbow grease that aren't seriously messy.

When done, rinse with a spray of distilled and wipe more.

Brakekleen can be harsh on plastic, paint, harnesses, hoses, and your brain cells. And, as above, it 'goes away' really quickly. And it's not cheep either.

I use brakekleen on a toothbrush for stubborn areas or on cosmoline. That and a plastic fork (or similar plastic-like 'stick-thing') on a paper towel with the P21S will get you pretty far into nooks and crannies.

But, as above, there's no good substitute for patience and elbow grease. Clean everything you can get to as you take stuff apart and clean bits again before you put parts on. And take before and after pictures so you can feel good when you're done...

bills928

When I did mine I bought a small kiddie pool at Walmart and used it to catch all the greasy water coming off the motor ..... I had good results with Purple Power or Greased Lighting cleaner.... spray it on, wait a few minutes scrub with a brush , then rinse.. May take a few applications. Do it before you start disassembly to get the heavy stuff off .... Then as you remove parts you can do a more detail cleaning on each part you remove.

docmirror

....

YMMV, pro driver, closed course. May cause **** leakage. Objects in mirror, etc...

syoo8

Wow. Really?

I really, really would not use gasoline. Kerosene if you want to go with a petroleum distillate, but make sure it is very well-vented.

A high school friend was a volunteer firefighter and told me story after story about people using gasoline to clean a gun, a window, etc. Boom.

Don't do it.

bills928

[QUOTE=syoo8;11776251]Wow. Really?

I really, really would not use gasoline.

+1

dr bob

Take ALL the old belts off, marked with their 'from' locvations, and use them to help you match up the new belts you will install. Put the belts on your laydown/parts table, along with all the other stuff you remove, in the order that you remove it. I found some plastic dishpans similar to what the TSA uses to hold your shoes; they get pulled into service, along with other used plastic containers from the kitchen. Each is labeled with where the parts came from if it isn't --real-- obvious.

Once everything is removed, the block gets cleaned. Plug the dipstick hole. On cars with the oil separator drain to the front of the sump, that hole gets blocked off too. Plastic goes down on the floor and the serious cleaning starts. The kiddie-pool idea is probably good, as is the plastic 'concrete mixing tub' from Home Depot. While you are at H-D, grab a gallon of ZEP Citrus Degreaser (edited name). DO NOT USE THE PURPLE DEGREASER ON ALUMINUM. If you want to attack with solvents, grab a gallon of deoderized mineral spirits (paint thinner) from the paint department. Before you start with solvents and detergents, scrape off as much of the muck and deposits as is practical with a plastic putty knive. Plastic leaves no scars on painted, plastic or metal bits.

Dilute the citrus degreaser 50% in water, and start spraying it on. Avoid getting any in the alternator or on electrical connectors, but everything else is fair game. I put it in a garden sprayer, FWIW, so my hand desn't get sore from squeezing the trigger on a spray bottle. Apply liberally, wait a while per the directions, apply again after agitating remaining muck. Hose off into the containment. Repeat as needed. After the last rinse, remove the containment, clean the floor thoroughly (so you don't slip and so you can find things you drop).

Brake Clean in it's retail form is pretty much acetone in a spray can. It flashes quickly, but on the way it's fat-soluble (goes right through the skin into the blood) and it will cause nerve (brain) damage. Those who use it a lot and still like using it are still-walking evidence of that damage. Use it for what it's intended for, in a well-ventilated area only and with protective gear like gloves etc.

I have a 1/2-gal wide-mouth plastic jug that used to hold something like instant potato flakes. I fill it maybe a third full of that deoderized paint thinner, then drop in the nuts/bolts/hardware that was in the plastic food tubs. One tub at a time. Shaken not stirred. A magnet is a handy retrieval tool. Then those same parts get a citrus rinse, hot water rinse, dry and inspect, back into the labelled tub from which they came.

Larger parts get cleaned in the utility sink with the citrus spray, then rinse with hot water and dry. When the parts are clean enough to sit at the dining room table for formal dinner, they go back to the laydown table to the same spot from where they came.

Adding new hard parts? Carefully remove the old part from the laydown table, replace with the new part. Archive the old part or throw it away now, just don't have duplicates on the table.

At this point you have all your cleaned and new parts laid out in the order they were removed. The engine bay is clean and ready. Start assembling things, working from last end of the table back towards the beginning end. Don't leave anything out or deviate from the order on the table. At some point all the stuff that was on the table will be installed in the engine bay. At that point only fluids like oil, coolant and beer will remain between you and driving. Don't get the fluids mixed up.


So, to summarize: Brake Cleaner is a last resort only. Clean is better. Keep your parts in careful order so you don't miss anything.

The first timing belt project I did, I took video of the whole project. Narrated it along the way, including holding pieces up to the camera to show how they all fit. Several major operations ended up being done a few times to get good angles and narration. Some were done a few times because I screwed up and needed to show the right way on camera. On assembly, more than a few times I went back to the video to verify or correct something I'd done. Got a video camera? Yet?

FRUNKenstein

Wow - thanks everyone for the great advice. Apparently, many have faced the grunge monster and lived to tell the story. Great ideas and tips.

docmirror

Do you people not read whole posts? Ya know, the part where I said Stoddard solvent is the best. The part where I said YMMV - etc.

Most particularly the part where I said I use gas? No where did I advise YOU use it!

C'mon - if you want to comment on the parts I wrote, take it all in and then comment, don't take things out of context to puff up something you want to say at my expense. That's what politics forum is for.