High price for timing belt replace?
09-24-2014, 11:52 AM
#16
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For any parts, I would call 928 International in Anaheim, Tom usu answers: 714-632-9288 or Roger Tyson in TX at 817-430-2688. They are sponsors here, They know the 928 and stand behind their parts, new or used. I don't think Rogers sells anything used; Leave a message if you have to but call back in 24 hours if they don't get back to you. They are busy.
The tensioner can be refurbished, a couple of seals and a rubber boot. I don't know if they recommend or carry any rebuilt pumps.
Finding a mech that will work with you can be problematic. Understandably they don't want the headache of this system if they aren't experienced with it. Your '84 is a non-interference engine so not quite the liability, but still you don't want to pay for their education on the 928, regardless of MY. That is why owners become DIYs.
Good luck.
The tensioner can be refurbished, a couple of seals and a rubber boot. I don't know if they recommend or carry any rebuilt pumps.
Finding a mech that will work with you can be problematic. Understandably they don't want the headache of this system if they aren't experienced with it. Your '84 is a non-interference engine so not quite the liability, but still you don't want to pay for their education on the 928, regardless of MY. That is why owners become DIYs.
Good luck.
09-24-2014, 12:23 PM
#17
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The price quoted sounds like the price you would get by someone who either will learn the job on your car, or is just giving you the 'FU' price. I suspect he knows it's going to be a long, time consuming, hassle of a job, so he quoted it as high as he could. If he gets made whole on the deal that's fine. If you walk away, that's fine too so he can do that Miata brake job for $299 in a matter of 1.5 hours.
Some indie mechanics don't like to get saddled with long arduous jobs on cars they don't know. Can't really blame them, and this guy sounds like he has no clue about the 928 TB job or he would have counseled you to rebuild the tensioner and not replace it, he would also have counseled you that there are other things in the front that need investigation when stuff comes apart, like the cross engine harness.
The idea of a TB party has merit, and it's been done all around the world now. You bring beer, brats, maybe a few ribs or wings and offer up a decent sized garage for the wknd, and ya'll have at it. Usually there's one or two guys who know the process well, and they will take the major part of the job while you stand around and fetch beer, or wings.
I still remember the one where Ernie(the car owner in question) was going back for more beer and fell in the edge of the pool and broke his shoulder. We put him in a lawn chair, gave him a few percocet, and finished the suspension work on his car while making fun of him(an MD no less). Good times....
Some indie mechanics don't like to get saddled with long arduous jobs on cars they don't know. Can't really blame them, and this guy sounds like he has no clue about the 928 TB job or he would have counseled you to rebuild the tensioner and not replace it, he would also have counseled you that there are other things in the front that need investigation when stuff comes apart, like the cross engine harness.
The idea of a TB party has merit, and it's been done all around the world now. You bring beer, brats, maybe a few ribs or wings and offer up a decent sized garage for the wknd, and ya'll have at it. Usually there's one or two guys who know the process well, and they will take the major part of the job while you stand around and fetch beer, or wings.
I still remember the one where Ernie(the car owner in question) was going back for more beer and fell in the edge of the pool and broke his shoulder. We put him in a lawn chair, gave him a few percocet, and finished the suspension work on his car while making fun of him(an MD no less). Good times....
09-24-2014, 01:14 PM
#18
Former Sponsor
I just had an estimate of $3,200 +/- to replace the timing belt, water pump, and so forth on my 84. They said the water pump alone was $1,200 and the tensioner another $1,200 with the rest in assorted parts and labor. I'm assuming that this independent shop is using PORSHE parts only. Those amounts seem really high for a water pump and tensioner. One reputable internet vendor has a PORSCHE WP for $650 or so. I have done some searching on here for some price comparisons for this job with limited success. In live in the Kansas City metro area.
What are some prices that others have paid to get this job done? I'm not handy enough to even think about attempting a job like this. I have read that Oslo(sp?) makes a good WP, and are reasonably priced. The TB's are not really expensive.
Any thoughts that members have would be helpful as I just bought the car a couple of weeks ago. It's an auto, red interior, painted white. Hence, greatwhiteKC.
Thanks in advance for your responses.
What are some prices that others have paid to get this job done? I'm not handy enough to even think about attempting a job like this. I have read that Oslo(sp?) makes a good WP, and are reasonably priced. The TB's are not really expensive.
Any thoughts that members have would be helpful as I just bought the car a couple of weeks ago. It's an auto, red interior, painted white. Hence, greatwhiteKC.
Thanks in advance for your responses.
If he indeed uses a new Porsche pump, tensioner, belt, and other pieces, some quick math says he can't possibly do that job for $3200, unless his labor charges are exceptionall low.
Factory parts...for just the very basic parts add up to a minimum of 2800....plus tax.
The job takes 10-12 hours....without disasters, like broken bolts. He's going to do the labor for just over $300.00?
No. Once he gets in there, finds a few other worn pieces, you will be looking at 5K.
Suggestions:
Have whoever does the job use a Laso pump....certainly not as good as a factory pump, but very close.
I've literally done hundreds and hundreds of this job....I've yet to buy a new tensioner. Even if yours has been without oil for years and years and is complete junk, a rebuildable used tensioner can be found really
economically.
Shop around some....ask this mechanic more questions, see if he is willing to use more economical pieces, while not compromising the job.
While $3200 belt, water pump, tensioner rebuild, gears, rollers, etc. jobs are common., if the math doesn't add up going in, it is likely to really shock you, in the end.
All shops need to make a profit on parts to survive. See if you can buy the parts and give him 20% profit margin, right off of the parts invoice and bring your own stuff. That's usually fair, given the tiny profit margin on Porsche pieces. Then pay him for labor.
09-24-2014, 01:15 PM
#19
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I would do it myself. With Dwayne's write up you will get the skill you need on paper. The only thing you have to be able to do is get out broken bolts that can happen on a job like this. It really isn't that hard. I have a pretty good mechanical sense about me but I had never tackled a job like this. It was the first job I did on my car. Everything went as Dwayne shows. I then used his write up to do my intake refresh. After that I used Rennlist knowledge to pull my engine, replace a piston and head gaskets.
You can do it, seriously. All you need is tools and time. It is just parts put together. They come apart (most of the time
) and go back together. As long as you aren't creating something new like the expert Greg Brown and his amazing shop in Anaheim you are merely doing a big lego build (albeit very greasy and the parts are more expensive). Call Roger at 928sRus and he will get you all you need as far as parts go.
You can do it, seriously. All you need is tools and time. It is just parts put together. They come apart (most of the time
) and go back together. As long as you aren't creating something new like the expert Greg Brown and his amazing shop in Anaheim you are merely doing a big lego build (albeit very greasy and the parts are more expensive). Call Roger at 928sRus and he will get you all you need as far as parts go.
09-24-2014, 04:37 PM
#21
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If you haven't done so already, give Karl at RennsportKC a call. When I don't have time to work on my car myself, that's where I go. It's a bit of a nuisance for me (Grandview, MO isn't exactly convenient for me), but it's one of the few places I trust to work on my car.
09-24-2014, 04:44 PM
#22
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Here's another scenario ... get on Sean's calendar, drive down to Denton then fly back home on a cheap SWA flight. Come back in a week or so and not only will your TB/WP job be expertly cared for at a fair price but he'll have found or figured out two or three other things you didn't know about but are glad you do.
09-24-2014, 08:15 PM
#23
I wholeheartedly endorse Tom's suggestion - I have handed over my keys twice to Sean in the past two years - I've driven to Denton and flown back to Houston then back to Dallas the following week. It is well worth it!
09-28-2014, 12:47 AM
#24
Rennlist Member
Welcome to KC..I live in Overland Park and have had the tb wp done by a shop and they did a very good job. They also replaced the tensioner with a brand new unit..that sucker's expensive..but as others have posted..there are excellent water pumps for much less...this shop did not charge me that much.
4 years later and it's only needed to be re-tensioned once..it's inspected annually. Let me know if you want details...the guy is good with engines.
4 years later and it's only needed to be re-tensioned once..it's inspected annually. Let me know if you want details...the guy is good with engines.
09-28-2014, 01:22 AM
#25
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price is probly right for the top of the line parts, What is your MY?, ('84, ok, add your car specs to to your sig in the user CP panel) New tensioners are about 1k, but they may be rebuilt for a fraction of the cost of new. There are cheaper alternatives to replacement parts, but if you have a 32v engine it depends on how well do you trust the parts. I here there is a chuby engine swap kit available.
btw, I spent alittle over 1k for a TB/WP job the FIRST time, next time I will do it the correct way.
btw, I spent alittle over 1k for a TB/WP job the FIRST time, next time I will do it the correct way.
Last edited by OTR18WHEELER; 09-28-2014 at 04:43 AM. Reason: editeded, slow keyboard
09-28-2014, 04:18 AM
#26
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The big chunk of money variable that you must watch very closely is the water pump.
Don't let the uniformed shop, and that's most of them, make this choice for you.
I've heard otherwise very reputable independents say that a good rebuild (they mean from their distributor's local or regional rebuilder), is as good as new.
If you hear this, refute it outright.
As said already, there are only two recommended choices for water pump.
1. New Porsche pump from a known Porsche parts dealer
2. New Laso pump with plastic impeller (Roger at 928s R Us is repsonsible for urging Laso to produce this pump in its current form)
The imposters, and there are several, are easy to find but hard to differentiate, that's why you need to buy from a source that uses the supply chain directly.
There are chinese castings that carry wide variety of marks.
There are original Porsche castings with rebuild parts: same with Laso..
Problem with rebuillds, which prompted the creation of the newest Laso, is that the fit of the parts, along with the lack of attention of rebuilders, causes those pumps to fail. Problem with the chinese knockoffs is that they also have bad tolerancing and many carry steel impellers. Old Laso and rebuilt Laso and rebuilt Porsche castings also carried metal implellers.
Siezure breaks timing belts.
Migrating impellers carve out the water pump volute on the block.
Don't let the uniformed shop, and that's most of them, make this choice for you.
I've heard otherwise very reputable independents say that a good rebuild (they mean from their distributor's local or regional rebuilder), is as good as new.
If you hear this, refute it outright.
As said already, there are only two recommended choices for water pump.
1. New Porsche pump from a known Porsche parts dealer
2. New Laso pump with plastic impeller (Roger at 928s R Us is repsonsible for urging Laso to produce this pump in its current form)
The imposters, and there are several, are easy to find but hard to differentiate, that's why you need to buy from a source that uses the supply chain directly.
There are chinese castings that carry wide variety of marks.
There are original Porsche castings with rebuild parts: same with Laso..
Problem with rebuillds, which prompted the creation of the newest Laso, is that the fit of the parts, along with the lack of attention of rebuilders, causes those pumps to fail. Problem with the chinese knockoffs is that they also have bad tolerancing and many carry steel impellers. Old Laso and rebuilt Laso and rebuilt Porsche castings also carried metal implellers.
Siezure breaks timing belts.
Migrating impellers carve out the water pump volute on the block.
09-28-2014, 04:52 AM
#27
You can call me Otis
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The big chunk of money variable that you must watch very closely is the water pump.
Don't let the uniformed shop, and that's most of them, make this choice for you.
I've heard otherwise very reputable independents say that a good rebuild (they mean from their distributor's local or regional rebuilder), is as good as new.
If you hear this, refute it outright.
As said already, there are only two recommended choices for water pump.
1. New Porsche pump from a known Porsche parts dealer
2. New Laso pump with plastic impeller (Roger at 928s R Us is repsonsible for urging Laso to produce this pump in its current form)
The imposters, and there are several, are easy to find but hard to differentiate, that's why you need to buy from a source that uses the supply chain directly.
There are chinese castings that carry wide variety of marks.
There are original Porsche castings with rebuild parts: same with Laso..
Problem with rebuillds, which prompted the creation of the newest Laso, is that the fit of the parts, along with the lack of attention of rebuilders, causes those pumps to fail. Problem with the chinese knockoffs is that they also have bad tolerancing and many carry steel impellers. Old Laso and rebuilt Laso and rebuilt Porsche castings also carried metal implellers.
Siezure breaks timing belts.
Migrating impellers carve out the water pump volute on the block.
Don't let the uniformed shop, and that's most of them, make this choice for you.
I've heard otherwise very reputable independents say that a good rebuild (they mean from their distributor's local or regional rebuilder), is as good as new.
If you hear this, refute it outright.
As said already, there are only two recommended choices for water pump.
1. New Porsche pump from a known Porsche parts dealer
2. New Laso pump with plastic impeller (Roger at 928s R Us is repsonsible for urging Laso to produce this pump in its current form)
The imposters, and there are several, are easy to find but hard to differentiate, that's why you need to buy from a source that uses the supply chain directly.
There are chinese castings that carry wide variety of marks.
There are original Porsche castings with rebuild parts: same with Laso..
Problem with rebuillds, which prompted the creation of the newest Laso, is that the fit of the parts, along with the lack of attention of rebuilders, causes those pumps to fail. Problem with the chinese knockoffs is that they also have bad tolerancing and many carry steel impellers. Old Laso and rebuilt Laso and rebuilt Porsche castings also carried metal implellers.
Siezure breaks timing belts.
Migrating impellers carve out the water pump volute on the block.
09-28-2014, 12:12 PM
#28
Rennlist Member
I just picked up my '87 928S4 last Saturday. Drove it home from Indiana and arrived Sunday night. First thing I did Monday morning was call RennsportKC. They are the best in the Kansas City area. I take my 951 and 996 to Wes and Karl - outstanding work, fast and reasonably priced. Although they like to poke jabs at 928's on their website's blogs, they do work on them. Wes gave me a preliminary quote Tuesday of 10 hours of labor at $100 per plus parts. Total estimate was roughly $2,100. Wes was still working on getting the parts together and was going to call me when they got the parts in since they have to source them from other than their regular parts vendor. Frankly, after reading their 928 related blog posts, it appears they get their parts from 928rus. I know that those guys were out of their office (the 928rus guys) last week, so I suspect that's why I haven't gotten a slot yet. I would suggest that you call RennsportKC and talk to Wes this week. Since he just went through sourcing my parts this week, it will be easy for him to give you an estimate now. Heck, tell him he should give us a quantity discount! By the way, Karl is a pretty regular Rennlist poster, so he'll probably see your thread.
Also, I met syoo8 (Scott) last Sunday in Columbia as I stopped for lunch with my son at Mizzou. Scott lives in CoMo. Once I get my TB/WP work done, I'm going to tackle the HVAC system. Scott knows tons about that job - he's got 2 928s and does his own wrenching. He's a great guy also - tremendously knowledgeable and talented human being. He's offered to help me sort mine out. If you need HVAC work done too, maybe we can convince him to come over to KC one weekend day and we can wrench together. I'll take you guys over to the Kansas City Auto Museum for a tour also - would be good to do that on a Cars and Coffee Saturday morning - it's a great time (last Saturday morning of every month - just had one yesterday).
Also, I met syoo8 (Scott) last Sunday in Columbia as I stopped for lunch with my son at Mizzou. Scott lives in CoMo. Once I get my TB/WP work done, I'm going to tackle the HVAC system. Scott knows tons about that job - he's got 2 928s and does his own wrenching. He's a great guy also - tremendously knowledgeable and talented human being. He's offered to help me sort mine out. If you need HVAC work done too, maybe we can convince him to come over to KC one weekend day and we can wrench together. I'll take you guys over to the Kansas City Auto Museum for a tour also - would be good to do that on a Cars and Coffee Saturday morning - it's a great time (last Saturday morning of every month - just had one yesterday).
09-28-2014, 12:55 PM
#29
Burning Brakes
Also, I met syoo8 (Scott) last Sunday in Columbia as I stopped for lunch with my son at Mizzou. Scott lives in CoMo. Once I get my TB/WP work done, I'm going to tackle the HVAC system. Scott knows a few things about that job - he's got 2 928s and does his own wrenching. (snip) If you need HVAC work done too, maybe we can convince him to come over to KC one weekend day and we can wrench together.
