I admire your loyalty. I think you are being a bit shortsighted, but I'm happy to entertain your attack on me, too. All of you that benefit financially from Porken's unit might as well chime in!

Try to keep in mind that Ken is the one that said I was being deceptive...I'm simply responding to show where the real deception lies.

If he doesn't start it, I don't respond. You might direct your anger towards the guy that started this...and tell him to knock it off!

Pretty obviously, continuously kicking me in the ***** is obviously not working very well, is it?

I've certainly not seen the failure mode....and obviously others have not seen it....I've gotten no information on a potential update....an others obviously have not.

You might not call that a cover-up....but it sure as hell isn't forthcoming!!!!!!!!

BTW.....who wrote the check for the failure....or perhaps more to the point, who contributed to the repair of the failure? Just asking who took responsibility....tell the truth....because I know the answer.

As Ken said earlier, in this very thread, when he responded to the fact that I've never seen a stock tensioner fail....failures of the stock tensioner might cause premature belt wear.

Obviously, at least one of Ken's failures ended up doing catastrophic engine damage

In my head, the risk of premature belt wear is a hell of a lot different factor than the entire tensioner failing, which results in a catastrophic engine failure....but that is just me and you've obviously got a different spin on this!

Keep in mind, that of the THOUSANDS of 928's I've worked on, I've seen THREE failures in the belt area......THREE!!!! One was a broken cam drive sprocket, from someone not properly torqueing the cam bolt....the second one was simply a belt failure from very, very old age, and the final one was a water pump pulley falling off of a rebuilt pump.

So the new marketing campaign must be:

Avoid premature belt wear, from a poorly rebuilt or installed stock tensioner, and suffer catastrophic engine damage with Porken's unit, instead.

There's a step in the right direction for the 928 community!

You guys want "tee" shirts or hats, with the new slogan?

 

Correct choice.

The key words are "engineers designed".

 

My loyalty is to me and mine, not to any of these guys. So first off, quit taking anything that counters what you are saying as an attack. I wish both of you would knock it off but my wishes aint going to happen anytime soon. Usually I just kick back and watch until tonight when my name was brought in to it, where you tied me in to some grand conspiracy to hide the truth. Hell, you got pissed at me when I mentioned something of yours failed. But I digress.

Greg, I've been in this 1/8th of the time you have and have seen more tensioner failures than you? I find that very odd. One a GTS, two S4s and a several of the early cars. Two resulted in bent valves. The failures were due to previous wrenches not taking care of the Porsche tensioning system. Whether it be the arm, the bushings, the bolt, or what not. They were failures of a "system".

If this has been eating on your mind for so long, why didn't you ask for pictures? Where you upset that you were not consulted on this? Did you expect a thread posting everyones thoughts as to what happened? You already know how that would have turned out. 3000 post of opinions and nothing would have been accomplished except peoples names being drug through the mud. ****, we can't even have a thread on headers or A/C coolant with out an argument.

Yes, one of Kens creations had a catastrophic failure which resulted in engine damage. How many Porsche engines have failed to some engineering failure on something they did? You have had failures also and you ask who foots the bill? I can tell you in Jims case he paid, Roger paid and I paid. Was Ken held responsible? Nope, except for him to learn what failed and make his product better. Kinda like YOU do right?

 

Agree. My impression is there's a definite pattern here.

It looke to me like anyone who offers a product with which Greg competes gets rubbished. Even Roger did originally, before he stopped selling fuel line kits and became a reseller for Greg's fuel line products, at which point he suddenly became a "standup guy".

Greg used to post useful or interesting stuff, but lately the signal to noise ratio has dropped to the point of not being worth the time to read, so I've put him on ignore and will use the "View Post" button when other peoples' posts pique my curiosity (a practice I've found to be a great way of cleaning up threads where one or two posters aren't "discussing" anything).

 

Like I said....tell Ken to quit kicking me in the *****.....It is clearly not working.

I don't forget, or go away...ever.

Accept his failures like a man, without excuses. There's a zillion reasons why his chips might not have worked in my dyno test....the cars has cats (his chips are intended for use without cats)....the car had 24 pound Ford injectors.....he initially sent me a chip that completely didn't work in the car....wouldn't run. Maybe there is something wrong with the brains in this car.

I have no idea what happened or why....but for him to come onto my thread and attack my credibility...make post after post of snide comments....that isn't going to sit very well with me.

I posted some of the funniest stuff I've written in years, in this thread, in post #2. The guy in post #3 asked that this thread not turn into another ****hole (my words, not his.) I removed my post.

I said nothing, let Ken explain what to do.....only commented that stock tensioner failures are very, very rare.

Ken came back, with the snide ****, again. Kicking like a dumb mule.

You say there hasn't been a over-up. Yet this is certainly the first time I've seen Ken acknowledge that there was a failure...or two.

And like I said in my prior post, there might not be a cover-up, but information has certainly not been forthcoming.

Clearly, almost everyone, except me, has an iron in the fire. I don't own the entire inventory of stock Porsche tensioner parts. I don't have a competing product. If everyone with a 928, on the planet, decided to put Ken's tensioner on their vehicle...it would have zero impact on me or my life.

Zero. Nada. None.

I take the position I always take....to protect the unknowing people that do not have the technical background to understand what is happening. The people that don't know the questions to ask. The people that will blindly follow the latest craze....no matter what.

Look at the rest of the people, on this thread:

Ken's position is obvious....he's financially involved.
Roger is trying to protect himself. He's financially involved.
You are fiercely loyal to Roger....I always expect you to defend him, when he doesn't feel like he can intervene. You guys come, as a pair. (I'm not saying this is a bad thing, just reality, which everyone here knows.)
People with Ken's tensioner are clearly trying to find out what the problem is, what is at risk, and what they should do about it.
Colin has honesty issues, which I caught him at, and he now attacks me any time he can.

Let the truth come out. Post the pictures. Let people decide what the problem is and what they need to do.

I'll say absolutely nothing......just show and explain the problem. Explain what you think happened. Explain the improvements of the black version. Explain the update. Explain why people either need to do the update immediately or that they can wait until some future time.

Convince ME and the people that feel that they are at risk that everything is in the open and honest, sound engineering principles are being followed.

 

By the partially obscured marking on the head, the countersunk bolt appears to me to be A2-70 Grade - ie Stainless Steel grade 304, Ultimate tensile strength 700N/mm2 . Metric Grade 8.8 UTS is 827 N/mm2.

The bolt with 8 on the head doesn't correspond to marking standards referenced here in Australia (all I have easy access to), however if I had to guess it could be a reference to SAE Grade 8 (Unified High Tensile - UNC or UNF) which is broadly equivalent to Grade 10.9 in terms of strength. Although as this generally refers to an imperial size/thread it is puzzling.

 

Greg,

You caught nothing. In fact if your recollection was so clear, you would recall that the owner of the car came in and stated that my version of events was 100% accurate, and correct........ You posted easily researchable incorrect facts to try to discredit myself. You now have done the same to Ken. Your story changes from one post to the next as you answer in rage.
Hilton is 100% accurate in his posting that the moment someone does anything that competes with your products, they are complete dirt and incorrect.
I may be many things Greg, and like everyone else have many faults, but dishonest is not one of them. Everyone who knows me knows this.

The problem is that you are the one who posts multiple digs, and incorrect statements about others. Those of us on the receiving end feel the need to respond to "defend" ourselves, by correcting your often purposefully incorrect statements. Thankfully more people are waking up to this, and it is at a point where your digs against others will no longer require a defence as everyone will just read through the lines knowing that your statements are full of misinformation.

 

Gentlemen, let me say a few words. First, allow me fill in some back story: I first heard of a PKT failure at Sharktoberfest last October, and got details first and second-hand at Third Coast in November. That was the GTS whose PKT had mostly detached, as a result of fracture of the M8 flat-head fastener and separation of the two steel plates that make up the bracket. Owning three 928's that I had fitted with PKT's, I was concerned. It was a nervous and sedate trip home.

My background is engineering. When we got home I disassembled the GT's tensioner and gave it a very critical look. I shared what I found with Roger and Ken, Roger shared details of the second failure with me, and Sean shared photos. But nothing went further, to give Ken and Roger a chance to sort out how they wanted to handle it.

In my view the PKT is a convenience item, and saves some time setting belt tension. I do not buy into the "scare marketing" and never have. But being a convenience means that I am also not willing to accept additional risk. Based on my own findings with my own analysis I have concluded that the benefit does not outweigh the risk.

Ken presents the PKT as simply using proven Audi parts in a similar application. It is a clever idea, but it is not that simple in execution. The Audi parts (actually NTN, from Japan) are mounted to a steel bracket, not an aluminum block. Steel expands differently. The geometric arrangement required a flat-head fastener, an anathema to any machinist because flat-heads cannot shift in their countersunk holes-- if they are not centered, they bend. Ken chose grade 12.9 flat-heads which are more brittle than 8.8 or 10.9. Early PKT's had tight-fitting 8.0mm holes so that the fastener was centered, while later ones have oversized 9mm holes. If not tightened first, they won't be centered. And the countersink angle is wrong, 82-deg (5/8" hardware-store countersink) vs. 90-deg for a metric fastener which compounds the problem. The GTS failure was a classic bending-fatigue fracture.

The Audi belt was also shorter, and wider, which means less stretch. The Audi/NTN tensioner handles stretch by taking up slack, it is a hydraulic damper with a one-way valve. The dynamics of belt tension here are likely completely different than the Audi application. I think the second failure-- a fracture of the M8 bolt securing the tension roller-- indicates that the dynamic belt tension is much higher than expected. The thru-bolt will be stronger, and (the lever bolt) will also help prevent separation of the two plates, so I was surprised to learn here that the thru-bolts are not recommended as a retrofit.

Ken, this thread is about your tensioners. I think your trying to turn it into a debate on Greg's headers is pretty low (post 28). How about if we at least make a half-assed attempt to stay on topic? If you disagree with anything I have written here then please, lay it out. You heard all of this and more six months ago, and you've had plenty of opportunity to sort out how you want to respond. I don't think one bastard flathead with a metric thread and a US-spec head-angle is adequate, but you've heard me say that before also. Personally I'm done with PKT's, I don't think the benefits outweigh the risks. But other folks value risks and benefits differently and will reach different conclusions. That's perfectly fine with me, I have no financial or religious interest either way. But I do think that folks deserve honest information.

 

What the hell, why not? Let's get all of the sleeping dogs out and beat them, all at once.

You nailed me! I'm definitely the bad guy!!!!'

I'm the one who sold a customer a valve stem seal replacement and then when that didn't work, sold them on a complete replacement of a ventilation system with a 100% track record of working, with my own system, for personal gain.

Because you "couldn't figure out" that the check valve to the oil pan wasn't holding and oil was backfilling into the Provent!

You can take your choice....either you're the dumbest guy to ever own a set of tools, or the situation conveniently fell into you lap and gave you a great opportunity to shamelessly promote your own system. There's no other choices!

I'm really happy, for you, that you were able to con the client into thinking your method was honest. Does that make it feel better?

You might want to explain that although you knew my system initially solved the clients problem and you knew that the Provent was completely plugged with oil, why it was too much of an effort to either clean the filter or check why the filter might have been overwhelmed....

Oh yeah, that would have taken minutes to do....but would have not lined your pockets, or served your agenda.

In case you haven't heard, I had one if your customers trying to buy one of my brand new transmissions, for you to install.

I literally don't trust you enough to allow this to happen, so I declined to sell your customer a transmission.

That's one hell of a statement about how much I distrust you....I wouldn't take an easy profit on an item, because I don't trust you enough to install it and make sure the clutch releases properly or adjust the gearshift linkage properly!

I've got no one else, anywhere, that qualifies for this unique honor!

Congratulations!

 

Greg,

Let me correct your misinformation one last time.

Joe had another shop install your system. He had it in for MONTHS before even meeting me.
He asked me to borescope the valve stem seals to look for possible leaks as your system did NOT work.
I told him that replacing the valve stems would NOT fix his problem, nor help his oil consumption. He had me perform the work anyways as he wanted to eliminate any possible reason that your system didn't work.
I phoned and discussed his system with you a number of times as we were going through things. You offered ZERO things to check, or remedy.
The check valve was installed and worked fine for the ProVent. The oil in the ProVent was there because it had been ejected out of the valve covers.
The only solution to make your "kit" work was to rebuild the motor. Which I quoted Joe for. He sat on the quote for a couple of weeks before I asked about putting a vacuum pump on as a test. I bought the pump, and installed FOR FREE, because I wanted the data. His rings had less than 5% leakdown btw. So there was no ring, or bore issues with the compression rings. He ran with my system on for months without paying even 1 penny, and I gave him a ton of info and asked him to do his own research prior to the install.
You then accused me of sabotaging your system when I found another way to help correct the problem.
You also posted purposefully incorrect information regarding GTS engines, etc. to try to convince the people on here what I was doing was going to cause their engines to explode.
When I showed information about what you claimed would have been sabotaged, and how simple your system truly is, you then threatened Joe, both physically, and legally because of pictures I made, and posted to show a point.

BTW. The fellow who phoned asking about the transmission gave me a slightly different story. At first you didn't know it was one of the fellows whom I have done tons of work for, he asked about a guarantee on the transmission and you would offer none. A brand new box you claim, and to stand behind your products, but you wouldn't guarantee that it would not even work on arrival. Then you found out that I would be installing it and you gave him a rant. He knows me well, and the work I do. He said he wouldn't buy anything off of you after how you behaved on the phone.

Again you distort facts, and purposefully twist things around to suit your narrative.

 

I continue to disagree with your opinions.

 

For those of us who have the original 'gold' PKT's can we have a few questions answered without personal attacks:

do the changes have to be done to the newer bolts?
should we stop running our cars immediately?
who is supplying the new bolts?
was GM involved in the recall?

In reading some of this thread I understand there were 2 PKT issues resulting in engine damage with some notification sent to PKT users? I never received any notification and have installed several systems (both my cars have PKTs).

Appreciate a clear and concise response hopefully from Ken.......TIA.

 

928sRus sent out an safety advisory earlier this year to ALL customers on our system that purchased a PKensioner bracket or system this was also followed up with a more detailed appraisal for those that requested it.
If you did not receive it (some did end up in spam as it was a mass mail) just contact me roger@928srus.com and I will be happy to supply it.

Actions requested ----
Visually & physically check the system for any loose bolts - if bolts are found to be loose please report back (none reported at all)
A replacement countersunk bolt supplied free of charge and to be fitted when next convenient to do so.
For those that requested it a free upgrade to the "Black" system consisting of the nuts, bolts and instructions to make the change.

AT NO TIME HAS THERE BEEN A COVER UP of any type at any time. The issue has been discussed everywhere in a free way and customers and potential customers have a right to decide for themselves what they wish to do.

 

Rob Edwards - for your peace of mind "Cardinal" received the information and update.

 

Perfect, thanks for the confirmation, Roger.