george928

I'm simply a new 928 customer who purchased a product online that was advertised as being "Made in Germany", what I received was a product "Made in China". I posted my experience here for others to see.

I should not have called this fraud which I have apologized for and will say again, I'm sorry.

I feel that experiences with online vendors both good and bad should be public knowledge.

Ketchmi

I'll bet that it worked exactly the same either way...

I have some very picky customers but I do not have any that insist on any/all replacement parts I use be made in Germany.

hacker-pschorr

We all understand your frustration, and it's the little things like this that can make owning a 30 year old supercar rather annoying at times.

We all agree, and such threads usually turn into very lively discussions like this one for all to learn from.

dr bob

I'll be the first to admit that I'm rather picky about certain things like bearings. While I'm sure that massive improvements have been made in steel quality with some manufacturers, I do like to see a genuine German-made *** or SKF, or American-made Timken, etc. My concern is directly related to how hard it is to replace, times how much collateral damage a premature failure might cause. Problem of course is that, unless I personally go through the boxes and verify that the actual bearing in the box is the one I want, I'm at the mercy of every minimum-wage shipping clerk, sales or shelf-stocking agent at every point where that part has touched down. I've watched when a 'new' bearing supplier comes in and rebadges existing shelf stock with the new manufacturer's boxes and labels. "Old" inventory is swapped around with new, and pretty soon the $100 box with the fifty-cent bearing inside gets shipped off to use in a space-shuttle robot arm or something.

So George, I have some of the same sensitivities. On relays, I'd like to have Genuine Bosch, PB, and there may be a few others. The no-name private-label "lazer-beam super night lighter energy booster" relays at the local parts place are pretty safe from me except in an emergency. For my AC control head relay replacement project, for instance, I found a nice industrial relay that's way overkill for the application. I published the documentation on that effort for others to use. It's been rewritten a couple times by others to support use of a more commonly-available Radio Shack part. Is it as good? Um, probably not. Will it make a difference? Um, probably not. Is the Genuine Bosch made-in-China relay good enough to run the fuel pump? If it truly is built to Bosch specs, the answer is Yes.

GregBBRD

Like this?



This is a common (virtually the only) relay found in early 911's, 914's, 912's, etc.

Imagine my surprise when I got the first of these, directly from Porsche (see the Porsche insignia, at the top?)

The big question, for me was......does a concours (sp?) judge mark you down for having a relay made in China in your perfectly restored 1970 911S, even though the replacement part is a genuine Porsche replacement part?

I'd sure think so....

Carl Fausett

If a customer is displeased with a standard part of ours, he may always return it for a refund so long as they do it soonish (under a month, please) and the part has not been installed or modified.

For whatever reason. No reason required.

This month we entered our 15th year of business. And we still carry a 100% positive feedback rating on eBay (15 years there)
See: http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAP...edbackAsSeller
Note we have been a member since Aug 1999!

I actually think its harder to keep John Q Public happy on eBay than it is to keep you 928 guys happy - they (the eBay buyer) tend to know a lot less than you guys do and it makes for some interesting situations.

Carl Fausett

Looking at this ad, your photos, and our supplier, it seems our supplier has substituted and not told us of the change. This happens more than you know.

I will edit the text on our page.

MainePorsche

Ah... A Happy Ending.
Good job Carl.

dr bob

There's always that judge who has a 911 garage queen with the original relays in it forty years later. OK I guess since it's winched into and out of the trailer at lawn shows.

We and other former major manufacturing nations have shot ourselves in the feet. We insist on high ('fair') wages for manufacturing workers here. We try to enforce similar standards in other countries under the banner of humanitarianism. Yet we still insist on paying the lowest possible prices for things, thereby forcing manufacturers to source pieces where the costs are lowest. It's ironic, and will be our own economic Achilles Heal at some point in the future. History students will recall reading about how the industrial revolution in America catapulted the US economy to greatness. There's lesser attention paid to working conditions enjoyed by the labor force that made that possible. In the former homelands, that force was unable or perhaps unwilling to go to the same lengths to keep up. Money flowed from other parts of te world to the US for cheap manufactured goods. Fast-forward a century or so, and the same scenario is playing out again. This time Asia is playing the cheap manufacturing role, and we send "our money" there. We can't really gripe; if we want to have great German or US-made parts in anything, it seems like they just cost more than we are willing to pay. Yes, we are in fact able to buy excellent US-made replacement relays. But we pay through the nose, relatively. Or we don't.

Greg, on the part you show, the only problem I might see is if an independent low-cost low-quality manufacturer was pushing a looks-the-same part in a looks-the-same box. If it's a Genuine Porsche replacement part, spec'd and sourced through their official supply chain, and subjected to the same ISO9002 quality standards as their other suppliers, I'm not sure there's a way to fault its use.

-----

GM has had a habit (actually a stated goal for a while) of building the lowest cost products for a particular market segment. The recent ignition switch issues are a perfect case in point. The switches they use are made in such volume that their costs is well under a dollar per unit. One in every car, millions of cars, do the math. The spring-loaded detents that keep the switch on position were undoubtedly determined in focus groups and internal test audiences, where as subjective 'just the right feel' for the detents was established. Not too stiff, apparently. Hang a large set of other keys on the switch, and suddenly that moment arm is able to rotate the lock to the off position in an accident or maybe just a sudden stop or turn. Maybe the driver's knee bumps the wad of keys. Anyway, the cost to redesign the switch is relatively small. The cost to actually change to the new design might be pennies per unit. For many millions of units in new cars. Plus the retrofit/replacement segment, where users would complain that their new switch is too stiff or balky compared with the well-worn unit they are used to. Oh, does it make a difference to GM where the switch is actually manufactured? Sure, so long as the parts are delivered exactly on time for the lowest possible cost.

Turns out maybe only concours judges bother to look at the "where it was made" label inside the coverings.

hacker-pschorr

Once and a while I find myself prepping vintage Corvettes for concourses (friend of mine restores them). One particular show I was finishing off a perfect 58, and I mean perfect. Had all the right certifications from NCRS etc....

At the last minute, the owner pulled out some cleaner and polished off the inside of the exhaust tips.

The only points he lost were due to being a "garage / trailer" queen since the pipes were spotless. The 65 we also brought to this show took first place due to this.

Sad ending since that particular 58 had almost 5,000 miles on it from just that summer alone.

ROG100

Dang - I need to raise my prices as we sell the exact same relay for $5 and yes I make a large markup on it.

I am with Carl - as most items by the large manufactures are made in China to there quality standards they are acceptable OEM alternatives.

Carl Fausett

Thanks Rog. On the other hand - my webpage did need updating. It DID say "Made in Germany" when they were. Now that I can no longer trust that to be true - I'm taking it down.

ROG100

Carl,
Meyle are one of the worst for trying to give the impression of "made in Germany" as they will show Meyle of Germany on the product and made in china on the baggie.
Recent problem with heater valves failing - only the Mercedes part is made in Germany.
Difficult to keep track at the best of times and yours was a simple mistake (and professionally taken care of) and certainly not fraud.
Roger

waynestrutt

George
I just received an order of parts from 928 intl. The custom form said" Country of Origin, Germany". In the order was a set of new Spark plug cables with absolutly no place of manufacture listed but obviously packaged in the USA. Also were 2 boxes of 4 Bosch copper spark plugs in Bosch boxes with in fine print "made in Russia. The next item, a rotor, was in a yellow Bosch box with a large label stating "Made in Spain" So receiving products manufactured around the world is something we need to accept. Companies source materials where they can get the best price and still meet their quality standards. Having worked in manufacturing sector for 50 years I have no problem with this as long as the supplier meets or exceeds the expected level of quality. If you take a look at all the items we have in our homes we would be astounded at the quantity having "Made in China" or Taiwan, or Malaysia on them.